From Victim to Victor: Dana S Diaz's Triumph Over Narcissistic Abuse and Her Path to Healing

Dana S Diaz's book "Grasping for Air" explores human resilience. You will be captivated by her candid account of surviving narcissistic abuse as a child to the end of her marriage. In her transformation from a victim to a victor, Dana's great-grandmother's wisdom shines as a beacon of hope. In this story of self-discovery and empowerment, her past is shaped by neglect and nurturing love from her great-grandmother.

As Dana navigates the treacherous path out of an abusive relationship, she shares her unflinching honesty. In addition to chronicling her past, it is a guide for those trapped in similar toxic cycles. Throughout the conversation, we discuss the insidious nature of narcissistic abuse and how complex trauma bonds make escaping seem impossible. We also discuss the critical milestones that led Dana to reclaim her health and dignity. The story of Dana illustrates the importance of setting boundaries for self-respect and listening to one's body.

In the end, the exchange explores the importance of community support for abuse and trauma survivors. Providing a sanctuary for healing and uplifting, her commitment to helping others reflects a communal spirit. As Dana shares her ongoing journey of self-care and discovery, she proves that rebirth and joy can come from the darkest of places. Join us in celebrating the hope and renewal found in vulnerability and solidarity.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:01

My guest today is Dana S Diaz. Dana is a wife, mother and author of the bestselling book Grasping for Air the stronghold of narcissistic abuse. Dana has had a lifelong experience with narcissistic abuse, beginning in childhood. Her education in journalism and psychology at DePaul University, chicago, gave her the ability to accurately verbalize and express how narcissistic abuse creates confusion and conflict within victims, so that she can help other victims know that they are not alone and better understand their own circumstances. Today, dana is a proud voice for fellow victims who are unable or afraid or ashamed to share their experiences. She strives to create awareness and understanding to ensure victims are given the support they need to first understand their situation and then begin the healing process. Her first book chronicling her own abusive marriage that lasted nearly three decades started a journal that she hid under her couch cushion in the basement. Dana lives with her husband, illinois, and is in the process of publishing her prequel and sequel to Grasping for Air. We welcome Dana to the podcast. Dana, it's so good to have you on today. How are you doing?

Speaker 2: 2:31

I'm doing very well, thank you. How are you doing over there?

Speaker 1: 2:33

I'm doing great. It's a little warm today it's 40, so we're enjoying the sunshine and watching the snow melt.

Speaker 2: 2:42

Same here, great.

Speaker 1: 2:46

I'd love to ask my guest a question to get to know you a little bit better. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Speaker 2: 2:54

All right, I don't know about the best, because I think that we all gather little bits and pieces of life as we go along in it, but I think one of the biggest pieces that comes from my great-grandma. Actually, she always told me to listen to my gut. She said that was my guardian angel, whispering in my ear Whenever you call it, I have found that when I go against it, things don't work out as well as they could have. I'm a firm believer in just listening to that inner voice, or whatever that is, that speaks to you. Just listen to that gut.

Speaker 1: 3:33

Yeah, I agree with that that. Sometimes intuition is a powerful thing, so I agree with it. I always like to ask my guest if you think about the different phases of our lives. There are people who drift in and out, but who are some people that serve to maybe inspire you in your life.

Speaker 2: 3:53

My great-grandma was the primary influence for me, without getting too deeply into my 48 years of life. It was because she was my first and perhaps my only for decades experience with love. Because I was born to a mother that she was a teenager, unwed at a time that wasn't socially acceptable. So it was difficult having a mother that was emotionally detached from me and not really soothing or nurturing or encouraging or affectionate and all these things you imagine a mother to be. But my great-grandma, I was with her for the first few years of my life until my mother could kind of get herself on her feet for both of us. So I really appreciated just having that sense of what motherhood really should be and knowing what love was, because the rest of my life, unfortunately, I was in one abusive situation after another. But I think what always brought me back to myself was remembering that I was worthy of love and knowing what love really looked like versus what I was being shown.

Speaker 1: 5:18

Wow, that's powerful, because, especially when you come from a difficult background, sometimes there aren't those people that show you love and so you have that at some point in your life is something that's invaluable to kind of be able to move us through to see this is what it's supposed to look like, exactly exactly. So, dana, I'm always curious to kind of share with us kind of your personal journey. I know part of that's in your book, but whatever kind of helps us to kind of get to how you got up to where you wrote your book.

Speaker 2: 5:48

Well, again, that's like my lifelong story, but the short version of that is that, as I just mentioned, I came out of not the greatest kind of a childhood my mother. I did go to live with her when she met somebody that she was going to marry. It was really difficult, though, because he didn't want me anymore than she did, and he was verbally and physically abusive, and she enabled and excused it and sort of tried to get me to submit and tolerate it, like she was, and I was just a little girl. So, I mean, I sensed it was wrong. I knew that people that say they love you shouldn't treat you the way that I was being treated, but it was really difficult.

Speaker 2: 6:37

More than anything and I'm not dismissing the severity that physical abuse can have an impact on the victim, but for me the physical was the least of my worries. It was the verbal abuse of every day being told that nobody wanted me, that I shouldn't even exist and that my stepfather would say he shouldn't have to pay for another man's child, and I was a burden, and my existence was bothersome. And, having been raised, my great-grandma raised me in the Catholic faith. So I struggled with God through a lot of my preteen and teen years. If I was, I'd just put here to suffer. If this was my life, I mean, should I even exist To say that I wasn't depressed or anxious and all the other things that you feel in that kind of a situation. So I struggled growing up, but they definitely didn't want me around it and I took the hint and left as soon as I legally could at 18. And I swore I was never going to let anyone treat me like that again.

Speaker 2: 7:50

But then, the first person that came along because I was so starved for any bit of affection or love. I went against that gut instinct that the second I met him boy, I felt it deep inside. I thought, oh, he reminds me of my stepfather, that's not a good thing. And I told myself to walk away. But there was nobody else. I mean, I'm just going to say I was young, I was desperate because nobody else was giving me attention or the time of day or anything and I lived by myself in my own apartment and I mean, my cat loved me. But we all want that human interaction and that affection of another human, that connection, and it's unfortunate I ended up spending 25 years of my life with that man, despite how I felt, because that gut instinct proved right right from the beginning and Would eventually motivated me to write my book.

Speaker 2: 8:55

Was that, by the end of the 25 years with him, what had actually compelled me to end our marriage was that I became physically ill. I did not realize that stress really could kill you. But it came to the point where I had spent over a year having every test done, going every Specialist the amount of money that that I spent on all this, just for every doctor to throw their arms up and say we don't know, we, we can't figure it out. We can give you a pill for your symptom. But I had two dozen symptoms. It was at the point where I had a spreadsheet of my random symptoms because nobody could figure out how they were all related. They were cardiovascular, neurological, you know, digestive, muscular, everything. My body was in an influx. But what was most alarming to me was that I had dropped down to 93 pounds within two weeks.

Speaker 2: 9:53

I mean I always was small and I always was healthy, but 93 pounds is. I was skeletal. That's a Halloween decoration, that's not a 40-some-year-old woman. I also could not breathe. I couldn't. My vision was going, I was blacking out. I, my hands were going numb. I mean my to say, my digestive system was slow. I mean it just wasn't functioning at all. I was having heart issues. It finally took a neurologist and a functional medicine doctor to Figure out. They got me with Mayo Clinic. Mayo Clinic Figured out that I had so much cortisol, which is a stress hormone, running through me, and at such high rates for so long decades really, since my childhood that I had become autoimmune. My white blood cells had thought that they there was something in my body they had to eradicate that they eradicated themselves.

Speaker 2: 10:50

So I was autoimmune and then the scratchiness you hear in my voice is a lung syndrome. Never smoked a cigarette in my life. I I've been a runner for many, many years, even coached cross-country for nine years at my son's grade school. But here I am with a lung disease that the doctor says is like having COPD and fibromyalgia all at once, which sort of connected all the dots of all these symptoms I was having. But the sad thing was is that there was no pillar surgery anybody could give me that.

Speaker 2: 11:21

I had three doctors say it's your lifestyle that needs to change. There's some part of your life Causing you all this distress that you know you have to make a change. And that's when I realized, you know, was actually that night, after one of my doctors sat me down and said your body is dying. You you are Barely living. Your body's doing everything just to keep your heart beating and your lungs going. But he said this isn't life. You need to really think about what you want and and how you want to live, because this is gonna end up taking your life if you don't. And that's when I realized that I had to have enough self-respect and self-love to get myself out of my situation. I thought I was being a faithful person by staying in a marriage, especially when I had known what I'd gotten myself into. I thought I was being noble by keeping the family together for our son. I thought I was, you know, making a sacrifice, I guess, of my life. You know, being the sacrificial lamb, so to speak. You know, to just keep peace and keep things going, and you know, but it wasn't worth my life, and when I really thought about it, I had to believe that God would forgive me, and in the end, the beautiful thing was was that, you know, here I was sick.

Speaker 2: 12:42

Covid hit right about this point, because this was early in 2020. We went into a shelter in place so I couldn't file for divorce because the courts were closed down. They were backed up anyway, and I was stuck in the house with this man and he had made threats against my life. On top of everything else. The abuse had escalated to the point of Domestic violence in fact, and so I was actually afraid that he was going to kill me, make it look like an accident. It was COVID, so who would know? Who would question it?

Speaker 2: 13:13

The world had bigger things to worry about, so I started keeping a journal of everything that was going on, and that journal is essentially what became my book, which covers that 25 years that I spent with him, from start to finish. And it was done because I think that people don't realize that you know, not just listening to your gut, but listening to your body, because my body was like screaming out. You know that, that we needed help, that that the situation was toxic and it wasn't healthy. And the beautiful thing to bring this back to God honestly was that, as a faithful person who had been so worried about Committing this terrible sin of, you know, getting a divorce, at least in my faith, that was what the consideration I realized that God had actually put this all in my path.

Speaker 2: 14:09

To begin with, he had meant for me to be here, absolutely 100%, despite what my stepfather said. He had put me in that situation. He had put me in my abusive marriage. He had also made sure that, instead of going to beauty school, that I was put at DePaul University, where they discovered that I was good at writing and good at speaking. So I ended up in the journalism program. I just hadn't been able to pursue a career in writing. So here I was at the end of this marriage, with all this Wisdom, I suppose that I had learned throughout and I had the ability to verbalize that and and accurately, accurately expressed that. So that's what I did. I took my journal and I made the story of what had happened to me and, you know, hoping that I could reach another woman, or maybe even men, because this happens to men too.

Speaker 2: 15:06

You know, so that maybe they would understand they're not alone, but also to know that there are consequences. You're not being noble by disrespecting your body, you're not doing any you know faithful thing by staying in a situation that's killing you, because nobody was meant to suffer like that, you know. And, more importantly, I wanted to serve as an example of you know, being able to come out of the circumstances and, at 45 years old, start completely over in life as a single mother, you know, with a kid about to go off to college himself, and that I could rise above everything. Because the beauty is, it's been only three years and four months since the divorce and I have made a lot of changes in that time. I mean my son and I have it, you know, probably within a six-month period.

Speaker 2: 15:56

You know we moved. He graduated from high school, he went to college, I got remarried, I all these, all these things happen. But boy are we resilient because we're standing strong and, honestly, we're doing better than upper. And I don't think that's unique to me. I think everybody has the ability to do that. They just have to choose that and and realize that maybe all these Impediments to their, to their life, or that, whatever hindrances they've they've had to overcome. Maybe they were put there for a reason because I truly believe that the first 45 years of my life was meant exactly To be what it was, so that it could prepare me To be able to understand things in a way and express them in a way that other people couldn't. Because it's helping a lot of people now, and I'm so grateful for that.

Speaker 1: 17:42

I'm always curious of somebody who does get out of a situation like that. How did you do it? Because you seem like you're trapped in a house with someone who was threatened to do you harm. How do you, how did you get out of that? For people who are listening going I want to get out. I know I need to get out, but maybe something about the way you got out may inspire someone else.

Speaker 2: 18:05

Well, I got lucky. To be honest, however, I was preparing because I did not think I was going to get lucky, so I will briefly explain first how I was preparing. It's unfortunate I was preparing for about 15 years because I just I was hoping for change of course, but when none was affected, I knew I had to just be prepared when you are in a situation and certainly I have heard some horrific stories of people that have been in much, much worse situations than I was in, but I think I've always told my son the number one rule of life is to be prepared. And so what I did and it's such a simple thing, but I ordered from Walmart for $50,. They have a little fireproof, waterproof safe that has a handle. It's not much bigger than a purse that a woman would carry and you know it has some weight to it, but it's. I was 93 pounds and I could carry it just fine, but what I did was I was stashing money away in there. You know, when grandma would send me $30 for my birthday, I'd put it in there. Or, you know, whatever if I got bonus at work, I'd put it in there.

Speaker 2: 19:18

I was making sure I had, and it didn't matter if it was $100 or $10,000, just to have something, to know that my son and I, if we had to pick up and run, we could eat, maybe I could afford a hotel room somewhere, we could go to Goodwill and buy clothes. I just needed something. So I stashed money. But what I also put in there, which is more important, is all of our documents, you know, like our birth certificates. I don't think I needed my passport, but I put it in there anyway just anything that I didn't have to worry about coming back to the house for. Because if we were in a situation and I needed to grab and go, I needed to grab and go. I need I could replace clothes, I could replace things. Anything can be replaced, but my life and my son's life could not be replaced.

Speaker 2: 20:09

But unfortunately, if you want to go and you know access anything or open accounts, you do need to have some pertinent information. So I just thought it was really important, like a photocopied even my driver's license, put it in there, any kind of records that I have, like financial accounts. I made a list of all my passwords, you know, for things, just anything that's super important that I didn't have to return for when in that little safe, and I hid it, he didn't know I had it. I even moved to the hiding place every so often so that just in case he might have discovered it. You know he, but he needed a key to get in it, which was a whole other thing, and I hid the key and I also alerted a safe person, and that's the other thing I'm going to suggest is have a safe person. What I did with my safe person number one was I made sure that she knew where my safe and the key was at all times so that if something happened to me, she would at least be able to access those things for my.

Speaker 2: 21:14

You know, as far as having guardianship for my son and that's the other thing I did as well is I made sure that somebody was set up as a guardian legally for my son, because I didn't want it to be the man I was married to and our marriage was just legal at that point. But I was terrified, you know, that he would, you know, have to raise my son if something happened to me and I, over my dead body, literally, was I going to allow that. So I established guardianship legally. He didn't have to know anything about that. He never did, probably still doesn't know, but I just kind of put everything in place.

Speaker 2: 21:52

I also set up with the safe person that every morning by, let's say, I think it was 9am, I had to make sure to text or email her in some way to say we're good, have a great day. If she was not, if she had not heard from me, she was to alert authorities to do a wellness check. So having these things in place at least made me know that we were prepared to escape at any time if we had to and if something did happen to me. I knew my son was the beneficiary to my accounts and my life insurance and that he had a guardian set up for that purpose, you know. So everything would be taken care of the way that I wanted it to. I realized that it's much more difficult for people with multiple children or, you know, maybe you don't have somebody you can go to, but I promise you, in every community there is somebody willing to step up for you, whether it's at your church, at your work, a family member, somebody is willing to help you.

Speaker 1: 22:57

I love that you use a term in your in the heading of your book a narcissistic abuse. Can you define what that is? I've heard of abuse before, but I'm not heard those two words to those two terms together.

Speaker 2: 23:10

Yeah well, I'm glad you asked that because a lot of people get messed up by the term. All it is is when a narcissist abuses you. The problem with narcissistic abuse specifically is that narcissists will use any and all methods of abuse to manipulate you, so like in my childhood honestly, looking back, I mean there is no question my stepfather is absolutely the king of all narcissists. However, the man I married the first time around is what we call a covert narcissist, so his narcissism was expressed differently. He was more subtle and seemingly humble about the way that he went about getting this admiration and praise from others. But they will use physical abuse, verbal, psychological, emotional, legal abuse, sexual abuse, financial abuse.

Speaker 2: 24:08

There are so many abuses, and that doesn't even include the manipulation tactics like the silent treatment and gaslighting. They isolate their victims, keeping them away from friends and family, keeping them away from outside influence, like me even moving them very far away from everyone and everything, so that they are the only one. You depend on them for social interaction, for love and affection, for direction, for guidance, to basically dictate everything, every part of your life, down to what you say, what you can do, what you can wear, what you can read. It is so restrictive in so many ways, and it's no wonder that I felt dead inside because myself, my unique personality and the things that made me who I was were taken away. He wanted a stepford wife, basically just like my stepfather had wanted me to play this role a certain way, to come off as his daughter and not as a stepdaughter.

Speaker 2: 25:21

Nobody was supposed to know, and I had to deny my Puerto Rican heritage and I had to deny my biology, and there's nothing wrong with being exactly who you are, and that's another takeaway from all this is that people need to understand that if somebody ever wants to change you or make you different than who you are flaws and all then that's not a healthy relationship to be in. But certainly there is a spectrum of narcissism and I want to be clear about that as well. I always liken it to tumors, because it's something people can understand. When you have a benign tumor in your body, it's just there, it's not bothering you. Those are, like the people that you know, really the perception of narcissism that's commonly known. These are the people on social media that are taking pictures of themselves and they do look fabulous.

Speaker 2: 26:17

You cannot hate on them. Might be annoying at times, but you know, they really do look good.

Speaker 2: 26:23

And in fact the word narcissist comes from the name of the Greek God narcissist, who stared at his reflection in the pond because he was just so in love with how he looked. But this other aspect of narcissism, which is unfortunately the part that I've had to deal with multiple times, are like malignant tumors, malignant narcissists. They cause you problems, they might even kill you and you have to remove them. There is no way out of a relationship with them except to just cut them out completely.

Speaker 1: 26:55

That's very helpful to define it because I know people are going, I know what nurses I need to be carefully, maybe abusive, so I'm glad you you separated those two things.

Speaker 2: 27:04

Yeah, and you know, and I tell people to not to get too caught up in the labels and the names, because your moral compass is going to tell you what's right and wrong and if somebody's not treating you right, I don't care what you call it. Wrong is wrong, abuse is abuse, exactly.

Speaker 1: 27:22

There are people listening to this podcast going. Why do people stay? And I think that's the hardest question for those who have not gone through it is why don't you just leave? Can you just kind of help people who don't understand why people don't get away, why they get stuck in those situations?

Speaker 2: 27:43

Absolutely. There's two parts to that answer. The first part is applicable to anybody, in any situation. You know, the thing is, narcissists aren't always just in romantic relationships. They're your boss at work. They might even be, you know, the coach of your kids little league team they're. They're everywhere in your community, they're at your church, they're, they're all over the place. They're in your family.

Speaker 2: 28:09

It's not easy to walk away. When I was a child and my narcissistic stepfather was abusing me, I couldn't walk away. Even when child services got involved. Guess what? Child services sent me back home because they didn't believe me, because my mother and stepfather put on an act. You know that. Oh poor them with the difficult daughter who's accusing them of these horrible things. So you can't get out sometimes Now as an adult, if we're talking about a romantic relationship, whether it be a partnership or a marriage of some sort again, obvious reasons.

Speaker 2: 28:46

If you have kids I mean you know I only had one, but still like I was not leaving without my child, and at that point he was a teenager. I couldn't just pick him up like a two year old and put him on my hip and walk out, and even though he saw what was going on, I couldn't be sure he was going to come with me, but there was no way I was leaving him either. There are also, you know, financial reasons. Not everybody can say, oh yeah, I'll just go have a place to live over here and pay my own rent and pay my own, you know utilities and I can afford food and a whole other life. Most people, they say, in this country, are $400 away from bankruptcy, according to a study from last year. So how are people going to afford another place to live?

Speaker 2: 29:35

Women, specifically, are afraid that the spouse that they have left is going to retaliate by taking custody of the children, and that happens a few, too many times. I don't know about anyone else, but I, you know, I understand it works both ways, whether you're a mother or father, but the thought of not being there when my son woke up every morning and went to bed every night, it just was not comprehensible to me. And then there's other factors too. Your families are intertwined, like I said, your finances. But you also have to think about I don't even talk about this in my book, but we lived on a farm. We had cows, pigs and chickens, and I had a dog that had epilepsy and had seizures, grand mal seizures every day, and she had lymphoma.

Speaker 2: 30:25

Oh, wow when was I going to take her? No, shelter was going to let me bring this sick dog. Yeah, we didn't have enough room in the book for that, but I mean I was not leaving her behind because, you know, usually when people are abusive to other humans, they're also abusive to animals. It's definitely prevalent, so there was no way and I was not going to put her down just because you know this man was who he was. That wasn't fair to her, you know. So there's a gazillion reasons.

Speaker 2: 30:55

But now the other side of that is what we call a trauma bond, and I'm sure some people have heard of this and that's something that's very difficult to explain to somebody that has not endured one. But it's basically when you're abuser, there's always this push and pull they love you, they have manipulated you into a situation where you know that after those rough times, they're going to tell you they love you. They're going to tell you they promise to be better and they're so sorry and everything else. Or maybe they don't. But you know, you have come to be manipulated to think that basically, the sun rises and sets with them. You are nothing and nobody. Without them, you can't be anything. Without them, you will never survive out in the world without them. And I know this sounds ridiculous to people because even in my life I had, I had a couple of people come up to me and say, oh, you need to be stronger. And I took offense to that because I was. No, I'm not a weak. I'm not a weak woman. It takes a stronger woman or man to stay in a situation like that every damn day of their life. Excuse me, but it's suffering. It is a suffering nobody can understand. And you do it because you're trying to keep peace for your child, you're trying to keep peace for yourself and maintain some sense of sanity, and you are hoping and you are praying that this person grows up or has some epiphany, that you know that they're wrong to go about life this way and that everything will be okay. And in the midst of all this misery, they are loving you and they're making these promises and so this bond that's created in going through these horrible instances of abuse and then feeling these overwhelming emotions of love and like everything's going to be okay and they're holding you and you I mean.

Speaker 2: 32:52

I even said at one point in my book which sounds crazy to people that haven't been there but at one point I felt unsafe and it's like I ran back home to him, the man who was strong, arming me and who intimidated me and threatened me and wanted me dead. But I felt safe with him and within the confines of our house, because I was made to feel that way. I was made to feel that that was just, that was my home, that was my security, there with him. So to tell somebody that's like taking a baby away from its mother. You know to say, oh, just leave. Or why didn't you just leave? It doesn't you want to. You know it's not right, you want things to be different. You don't want to live that way, but you're. There's actually even chemical, you know, responses in your body that are like addictions, like telling an alcoholic to just stop drinking beer, just stop drinking alcohol. It doesn't work that way. You actually, mentally and biologically, are addicted in a way to this person and to that situation.

Speaker 1: 34:06

Wow, I want to ask this because I want to get to the whole part, because there is a good side that came out of it for you.

Speaker 2: 34:12

Yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 34:14

What did the healing process look like for you?

Speaker 2: 34:21

It, it. It's not pretty. I don't want to. I think people think that they're going to decide I'm going to heal now and they're going to go to sleep and some magical fairy dust is going to be sprinkled upon them and they'll wake up smiling and it's sunshine and rainbows and oh, I wish it was that way. It's nasty, it's ugly, it's like. It's like the earth opens up under you and the spawns of hell come in and reach up and drag you down into it.

Speaker 2: 34:52

When you decide to heal, first of all, I'm going to tell everybody what worked for me and what I really highly recommend is make sure that you are in the right space physically, like your environment, and mentally, where you feel safe, because healing is not not for the, the, the weak minded or the weary. It's not something you can do if you're still in that toxic situation. That would be like asking a flower to grow and bloom in dry soil with no sunshine and no water. It's not possible. So you need to be safe. I could not even think about starting to heal until I was moved out of the house that we shared. The divorce was done, there was no contact. I needed to be completely away from the situation physically and then mentally, because I was now in a place where I felt safe and I had people surrounding me that I knew would not abandon me or reject me for whatever occurred and however I might act or react to the healing process. Then I was ready to begin and where I started was with myself.

Speaker 2: 36:12

I always liked to start things with some good premise, a good foundation, so I had to start by. You know, people call it self love, but it was just I called it, depositing just little happy things into my happy jar every day. And it's just little stuff you can do at home, like maybe I didn't want to cook dinner, maybe I just wanted to pint of butter pecan ice cream instead, and I indulged that. And if I wanted to paint my nails, or if I wanted to just go take a walk along the river and just hear the birds and listen to the water and just be present with nature and calm and soothe myself, whatever it is, just give yourself those little doses of happiness, because if you're in a good place mentally, you're going to be better able to go through the healing. But the healing itself is different for everybody, but you're basically sticking your hand right in the lion's mouth. You are voluntarily going back in your head to the core and just digging deeper and deeper and deeper into everything that happened to you, trying to understand it, make sense of it, see different perspectives on it, even see how you might have been contributing to it or participating in it unconsciously, and so you can understand how not to do that in the future and how not to get caught in these terrible dynamics. You know, in another relationship. So it's an ugly thing, but there are so many options for people.

Speaker 2: 37:50

Now I think people traditionally think about talk therapy. But you know again, not everybody can afford something like that and it's not effective. It wouldn't have been effective for me to rehash all these things with somebody who may or may not have understood it. I think it's just a matter of doing what resonates with you.

Speaker 2: 38:11

As a writer, writing therapy was ridiculously effective and I think also letting myself, putting myself intentionally in situations with people who were going to trigger me and upset me and cause me to feel the anxiety that I was feeling, was forcing me to self regulate and forcing me to deal with really heavy feelings and really intense reactions, even physically. But the more I did it, the more I was able to overcome it. And the more I was able to overcome it, the stronger I felt inside, and you know the taller I stood. And you know, having that, that love for yourself and that respect for yourself, and then finding that strength within yourself, boy, that's something nobody can take from you, no matter who it is, and that will definitely keep you out of those situations in the future.

Speaker 1: 39:14

So now you've gone through all of that, I'm curious what are you most excited about in this season of your life?

Speaker 2: 39:23

You know, I think I'm just excited that I have options and that I'm free to do as I please, because you know, going back to my personal, I spent 45 years of my life having everything, everything dictated to me. This was what I was going to do, this is what I was studying in school, this is what I was going to do for work. Like I said down to you know, my ex would tell me what lipstick I couldn't couldn't wear and what music I couldn't, couldn't listen to, and he didn't like me reading books. I didn't even have a smartphone until after that marriage. And you know, to be free, I mean, I'm a grown woman, I'm college educated, I've traveled the world. Like, I can make my own decisions, I'm of sound mind and everybody, I think, is free to live the life that they want and I love that. At 45, I could start over as a single mother and created in you know, three years time, the life that I had always wanted. I had always wanted to write and I published a book. I've got two more books I've already written that are coming out later this year, if I ever get done with revisions that the publisher wants on them.

Speaker 2: 40:39

And you know, I am remarried and in a very surprisingly healthy relationship. I wasn't even sure I was capable of having a healthy relationship romantically and I am, and I'm just so grateful that this man had been there all along. I just had never seen it not that I should have, because I was busy being married and dealing with a lot of other stuff. But you know, it's such a beautiful thing to be able to just write a new chapter, so to speak, and just say, okay, that stuff happened. It definitely taught me a lot, taught me lots of lessons and it made me who I am. And I'm not ashamed of any of it. I'm not ashamed for how I lived and what I dealt with and what I endured, nor am I ashamed for the consequences of any of it. I think, again, we're all uniquely different and it's our flaws and our strengths and you know, everything we have to offer the world that makes each one of us so beautiful inside, and what we outwardly express, you know, to others is just even more astounding. So I think it's just having that vision and going for it. I don't care who you are, where you are.

Speaker 2: 41:57

One of the most inspiring people I've met recently was an 83 year old man that decided when he was 80 years old that he was going to publish one book a year. And at 83, he has published three books so far and he is continuing on. And I love that spirit, because so many of us limit ourselves or we let other people or societal you know expectations or you know restrictions in and of itself tell us what we can and can't do. But you're in charge, you know, other than God. God, god is giving you the tools.

Speaker 2: 42:37

I mean, am I ever going to go to the moon? Probably not. You know, it sounds fun to be an astronaut, but I'm not a science person and I don't know if I want to go that far out of our atmosphere. But I was born to write, I was born to communicate, something always wanted to do, and here I am doing it and it was always in me. It was just a matter of me deciding that I was going to indulge, what I had always wanted and go for it, no matter what the consequences or what my resources were. If it's meant to be, you will find a way and it'll happen.

Speaker 1: 43:15

That leads me to my last question for you, and I love to ask my guest this question.

Speaker 2: 43:19

Okay, what do you want your legacy to? Be, so that's a big question.

Speaker 2: 43:28

That's why it's the last one, my legacy is just yeah, I bet you know my legacy. I think more than anything. Of course, I think of my son when I think of a legacy, and I want him to look at his mom and look back at my life and just be proud of me, that I didn't let all the naysayers tell me that I wasn't meant to be alive and that I shouldn't have ever been born and that, even though my mother has said that she would have had an abortion if she could have, I was meant to be here and I'm okay. I've experienced pain, I've experienced regret, we've all been through stuff, but I was meant to be here and I'm doing exactly what my purpose has always been and I'm happy. My soul is at peace and I'm settled and blessed in so many ways.

Speaker 2: 44:25

Just took me a little longer to get there, whereas some people get it a little earlier in their life. But I think people need to understand that, no matter what you've been through, you can get past it, you can move forward from it and you can smile and you can experience joy and you can be you. I don't like hearing people say I'm broken, I'm damaged, I suffered, I'm a victim. No, live your life. Live your life joyfully, live your life fully, experience life as you were meant to experience it. Don't limit yourself with those negative thoughts. I just think it's really important to just move forward, and everybody has it within them.

Speaker 1: 45:09

That's great. So where can the sisters find your book Grasping for Air the Stranglehold of Narcissistic Abuse, and connect with you on social media?

Speaker 2: 45:20

Absolutely, you can go on. Most people go on Amazon we all love our Amazon driver or you can. The eBook is also available on Amazon or go to my website, danasdscom. The link to buy the book is there. You can also access my Facebook and Instagram links. I do post content every single day. Some is helpful, some is funny, some are resources, but I just try to have our community of people together. Whether you're somebody that has experienced some form of trauma or abuse, or just somebody who wants to be there to support others in their healing journey, it's really important that, as humans, we all serve each other and help each other and support each other to get there.

Speaker 1: 46:09

Well, dana, thank you for filling this space and being a resource for people who are going through the summer things you went through, but also reminding them that there is something on the other side sometimes. And so to look for that, to prepare for it and to give them encouragement that you can do that, I'm so glad you're there to kind of give people that push to move forward. So thank you for what you do.

Speaker 2: 46:35

Absolutely. Thank you so much and thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 46:40

Thanks, Dana.