Do you know what to say to someone dealing with cancer? Do you know how you can help a co-worker whose family member is terminally Il? In this episode you will her from Kim who noticed that after the death of her husband, as an HR leader, she noticed that managers received no guidance when navigating cancer or death on their teams. She saw how their lack of helpful tools and guidance was costly. It negatively affected employee engagement, increased turnover rates, and lowered productivity.
She set out to change that. Combining her personal experience with her professional knowledge and leadership skills, Kim launched 100 Acts of Love, a consultancy that provides tools to help leaders increase team productivity, trust, and engagement when cancer affects the whole team member.
With 4Freedom, all your communications, internet activity, and app usage are encrypted using multiple layers of robust, military-grade encryption algorithms that surpass the standards used by the NSA.
You can start your secure account today:
https://www.4freedommobile.com?ref=bridgebuilders
Do you know what to say to someone dealing with cancer? Do you know how you can help a co-worker whose family member is terminally Il? In this episode you will her from Kim who noticed that after the death of her husband, as an HR leader, she noticed that managers received no guidance when navigating cancer or death on their teams. She saw how their lack of helpful tools and guidance was costly. It negatively affected employee engagement, increased turnover rates, and lowered productivity.
She set out to change that. Combining her personal experience with her professional knowledge and leadership skills, Kim launched 100 Acts of Love, a consultancy that provides tools to help leaders increase team productivity, trust, and engagement when cancer affects the whole team member.
With 4Freedom, all your communications, internet activity, and app usage are encrypted using multiple layers of robust, military-grade encryption algorithms that surpass the standards used by the NSA.
You can start your secure account today:
https://www.4freedommobile.com?ref=bridgebuilders
well kim welcome to the show it's so good to have you on this wonderful lovely afternoon
[kim_hamer]:well thank you very much keith for having me really appreciate it
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:a pleasure so i'm going to give you a kind of a warm up question and some i've said it's not easy but it's at least an interesting and warm up question what's the best advice you ever received
[kim_hamer]:yeh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:oh
[kim_hamer]:better done
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:better
[kim_hamer]:than perfect
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:oh
[kim_hamer]:and it came at a point where i was having a really difficult time in my life because i kept looking for perfection i kept thinking oh i can
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:oh
[kim_hamer]:do this better i need to be better you know it was really kind of harsh internal language and a psychologist a sike psychiatrist said to me better done than perfect and i didn't even really understand what he was saying because at that point i thought he was absolutely crazy he didn't know what he was talking about but that is the best advice that i've ever been given because it has allowed me to focus on on being a being a human being and not necessarily a human perfecting or human doing
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:i like that because we can get in that perfection mode and of course we never live to our own idea where perfection is so we always are chasing this magical rabbit that we dare to catch
[kim_hamer]:exactly
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:oh
[kim_hamer]:exactly
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:so here's where you get a chance to confess to the audience something that maybe nobody else knows but tell
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:us something about yourself that
[kim_hamer]:yeah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:most people don't know about you
[kim_hamer]:um i'm going to say this is a hard one because there's like so much i could reveal right i'm
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:it's
[kim_hamer]:going
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:just
[kim_hamer]:to
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:no one here but two of us to whatever you say
[kim_hamer]:there
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:now it
[kim_hamer]:exactly just two of us talking no one else is going to have know this infirm and i would say that i'm actually a i'm an insecure person i'm becoming less insecure i've been doing you know in the last ten years i've becoming less and less insecure but i think you know i have a very vivacious outgoing personality i can talk to anybody but i must prefer to have them talk to me then then have me share with them or for me to tell myself or reveal myself to them that being said sometimes i i you know if i have a good connection with someone i'll reveal all sorts of things but i think the for me is i'm actually uncomfortable like i i like parties i really like the idea of parties but then when i walk in and i started to talk to people i get like really scared and i actually have a set of conversation starter questions on my phone that i review before i walk into a big social situation so i have something to talk about other than hey what do you do for work um so i think that would be the thing that most people don't know is that i'm
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:actually fairly shot a nut i but just nervous like party situations
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:t's very interesting yeah because you come across is very open and very easy to so yes
[kim_hamer]:yeah that's just the thing and then i get in there and i'm like i'm like god i don't know what to say and they're not going to like me and i just don't know what to say and that was a really stupid thing to say and so it's just yeah the way i come across is not what's going on in my head
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah i tell my wife all the time
[kim_hamer]:yeah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:if you knew what was going on in my head you would be fascinated by
[kim_hamer]:ah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:the conversation
[kim_hamer]:exactly either that or terrified
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:i i terrify but
[kim_hamer]:right
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:it's a great conversation going on in my head
[kim_hamer]:exactly exactly
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:i'm always curious to know who are the people in your life that had made put image impact on your development
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:on your shaping so who are those people when you think back you say these are major people who've had an impact on my life
[kim_hamer]:i will name one person right now his name is roy nelson he was a mentor and is still a mentor to me who was a sort of a spiritual healer i came to him through my friend i came to him through my friend atricia nelson and i was at a really low point in my life it was a couple of years after my husband died we were running out of money because i kept spending it and couldn't seem to stop myself from spending it i was gaining a lot of weight i was starting to drink a lot of alcohol i was i knew things were not going to get better and i also knew that a regular twelve step program wasn't going to work for me i knew i had tried you know going to church and really kind of diving in that way and that didn't work for me i knew i needed a really drastic different solution and the work that i have my life today and even book and what i work for on businesses is a direct result of the work that i did with him and still do with him that has allowed me to be you know really free and thin and and alcohol free and not you know not not worrying about not white knuckling it with around cake around cake and alcohol i guess the two things um so i think in my life i mean he's there's you know there's these posts in my life there's the there's the you know post of you know before and after my husband and then there's my life before and after i met and started working with roy
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:that's powerful god sends those people in our lives at just the right time sometimes we need
[kim_hamer]:amen
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:him the
[kim_hamer]:amen
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:and i think i think god always sends people in our lives is just that sometimes
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:right
[kim_hamer]:we're not you know we're not aware of what's being sent because we're so focused on this is what i need so we're thinking we've got blinders on this is what i need and god's like okay but here's this and this and this and this and once we take the blinders off we see all the things that god has sent to us
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:well he doesn't take my advice when i tell him what i need so
[kim_hamer]:i
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:he
[kim_hamer]:know i'm kind of pissed off about that
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:just got his own mind of his own or something
[kim_hamer]:exactly how
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:just
[kim_hamer]:dare
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:listen
[kim_hamer]:because i
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:just
[kim_hamer]:know
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:listen to what i'm tellin you what you got stop start picking for yourself
[kim_hamer]:good point
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:so for those who don't know your story why you share your story with us
[kim_hamer]:sure so i actually like to start um sitting in an exam room with a doctor and my husband and the doctor is telling us what the cima regiment going to be and at the point where the doctor says you can no longer you can't you will not be able to work for about six or seven months i stopped listening um we were in the room for my husband he had just been diagnosed with large be seldom foma stage four and for those of people who don't know stage four is when the cancer has left the original site and is in all fran areas of the body um and i stopped listening at that point because we didn't have seven months worth of savings in our account and because my husband was the major bread winner and i couldn't see how we were going to like you know the option of there wasn't an option of him not having treatment because this cancer was had been within three weeks trying to shut down his lungs and kill him so i just i just i went to mass a panic and then a few days later i heard my husband talking on the phone and he sounded really weird and i had not heard this tone in his voice and when i went in to see him and he had just hung up and he said i just talked to my boss and he said my boss said that there the school is going to cover my salary for the next year and obviously we both kind of you know big sid of relief lot of tears a lot of gratitude lot of kind of really understanding how worthy we were as people to to get this kind of gift that someone felt that felt someone felt we were worthy enough to get this kind of gift um so yeah my husband was diagnosed with large bselumfhoma back in two thousand i mean sorry two thousand six he was cured of it in two thousand seven and cancer is really kind of weird because it's not weird but it brings out the best in your relationship your friends and also brings out the worst in your relationship so after he was cured still dealing with the side effects of the cima and trying to put our lives back together trying to make our minds up if we still want to even be made and um just sort of kind of getting back into the swing of things and um started to really kind of go on the uphill and you know farther and farther in between tests and feeling like we were meant to be together and then the cancer came back less than two years later and he died four months after that our kids at the time were twelve nine and seven and something that stood out to me while he was sick and after he died was some people seemed to know exactly what to do and other people seemed to know no nothing and they would and a lot of them step back and a couple of months a couple of years after he died i realized that you know if if one and two of us is going to get cancer one and three right of one and three it's one and two and men one and three and women are going to get answer the other two need to know what to do and how to support i went looking i felt sure that there was going to be a book out there that i just missed that someone was going to have this book to tell me tells me everything i can do to support a friend with cancer and there was nothing so i sat down and wrote this book and it's called one hundred acts of love a girl friends guide loving your friend through cancer or loss and it offers a hundred really quick specific easy things that anybody can do to support their friend with cancer and i wrote it in a way because i didn't want to read i don't like to read five pages to get that one point you know like most books you kind of got to read through them i wrote it in a way that it's so easily accessible you can pick it up you can open it up and it's like fill her car with gas done i can do that call my friend up i'm coming over to pick up your car right i want people to know these are really quick and actionable items that don't require planning or most of them don't require planning they don't require that you do them over and over and they don't require that you become overwhelmed by supporting somebody um and then a couple of years after that i went back and i returned into my first love which was h r which i'm still doing today and i know it is something that not only do regular people not know how to support a friend with cancer but you get into the work for us and companies and managers don't know how to work employes who are dealing with cancer or how to manage loss in the workplace or how to manage kind of any crisis and that you know everything from what do you say to how do you have heard conversations with your team what can you talk about with your team about the persons cancer what can you not how do you manage a person who's working with cancer because a lot more with the advancements we have in sort of people are working while they're going through treatment now so so that's what i you know i work as a consultant consultant and i also work helping organization you know helping managers who don't know what to say or how to work with an employee with cancer figure all of that out so that they can have an engaged and productive team so there's
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:my story in in three four minutes don't know long that
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:grace good you get a job of summarising it
[kim_hamer]:okay
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:but i want to drive down a couple o things because i'm a pastor and i know one of the toughest things i have to do sometimes is either say the right thing or help someone recover when someone said the wrong thing
[kim_hamer]:yes
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:um
[kim_hamer]:it's so true there's a recovery period when someone you love care about says the wrong thing i love that you said that that is so very very true
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:so let's start with
[kim_hamer]:m
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:the negative
[kim_hamer]:ye
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:first and we end with the positive
[kim_hamer]:yep
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:what do you
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:why do people why do people have such a hard time knowing what to say and one of some things that may be
[kim_hamer]:m
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:you
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:because everybody gets something different i mean i've had
[kim_hamer]:hm
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:people who are sick
[kim_hamer]:yeah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:and religious people
[kim_hamer]:yeah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:walking with the best intentions and one of the things
[kim_hamer]:yeah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:that my biggest pet peeve as a pastor is when i hear people say guy will give you more than you can handle
[kim_hamer]:yep yep
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:and and i tell them first of all that's horrible theology and it's not
[kim_hamer]:yeah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:the right it is it is not the verse in the bible that
[kim_hamer]:right right
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:you're misquoting it
[kim_hamer]:right right right
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:because it's not about it's not about pain and suffering it's about temptation so don't use that when someone's in the hospital
[kim_hamer]:yep
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:because that's that's bad theology
[kim_hamer]:yep
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:but what are some of the things that you heard that he's like i
[kim_hamer]:ye
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:don't believe that person
[kim_hamer]:yeah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:actually just said that
[kim_hamer]:well the most
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:well
[kim_hamer]:common thing i hear
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:m
[kim_hamer]:is if you need anything let me know and while it feels like it is extremely helpful to say and to offer it is actually one of least helpful things you can say and there's three specific reasons for that one what is anything i mean think about it when you offer anything to let's say mike i mean keith you and i don't know each other very well but i hear you have cancer and i really like you and you're the pastor of my church and i like you and so i'm going to walk up to you hey keith tell me if you need anything how help you're like
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:you
[kim_hamer]:okay i'm out of toilet paper and tooth pace but i also have to go visit this other person and i have to go get kimo and i have to go pick up a drug description of my drug prescription my wife really needs to have a good conversation right now which i can't tend to and i've got kids like there's so anything is too big and i used to say when you said anything i had it when my husband was first diagnosed had a four year old toddler did that anything include picking up his vomiting self and your brand new detailed card and bringing him home to me is that what you meant by anything my friend's mother was dying is there anythin me meant that you were willing to go sit with a woman who you know is dying
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:oh
[kim_hamer]:and read to her or did that anything mean you would happy to go get a gallon of milk if i called you right
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:right
[kim_hamer]:anything is too big so the second thing i said second reason it's not helpful is you are now putting pressure with that statement you're putting pressure on the person who's in crisis who may look like they have a full deck of cards but trust me they are not dealing with a full deck of cards right now so they are overwhelmed terrified out of their minds the rug has the rug and the floor have just been pulled out from underneath them and now you're asking them to take a part their day to find one specific thing that you might be willing to do and i don't know about you but the only reason i can remember what i have for breakfast this morning is because i could still taste it in my mouth most of the times i can't remember what i had for breakfast i couldn't tell you like you know the obvious things popped up when my husband was sick i need someone to give my husband rides and i need someone to pick my kids up to go to school that was obvious and the meals right but beyond that i couldn't think of anything so you're putting the pressure on the person to come up with it and the third thing is let's just say let's just say i come up with my now you come up with one thing you're like okay kim can you please do yatiaiata you have to risk asking me to do something that you may not that that that i may not want to do you don't know and you have to risk me you have to risk asking that and one feeling like a burden which nobody wants to feel like a burden and too you're really nervous about hearing the oh okay yeah i can do that but you know right so nobody wants to risk being rejected in their absolute moment of need when their life is upside down and they don't know what they're doing nobody and they're worried about being a burden on other people's lives because they know how busy other people are nobody wants to risk it so that's the three reasons why it's the least
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:oh
[kim_hamer]:helpful thing so what often tell people is be specific so keith i don't know you very well but i'm betting
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:that
[kim_hamer]:that you might be running out of toilet paper tooth paste shampoo
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:ah ah
[kim_hamer]:um you know condition r clippers sometimes our clippers go dull and we need clippers to take care of our toe nails when we have cancer right so
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:so i can be your bathroom stalker and i'll be like hey next time you need any being in the bathroom i will you call me and to make it even easier for you here's a little sticky note you can stick on your mirror with my phone number so when you're out of it
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:out
[kim_hamer]:you don't even have to worry about going the doorway syndrum which is you walk through the doorway and you forget what you were supposed to be doing before you don't have to worry about the doorway sindri just use your phone call me right there and tell me what you're out of and i'll deliver it to you in twenty four hours right so so then more specific you are about
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:oh
[kim_hamer]:the kind of support you're willing to you can help with the better off
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:and my last piece of advice is offered more than once offered more than once because again the person is not dealing with a full decade car it's two because it takes a while sometimes for people to admit that they need and be open to support and three if you offer more than once they're going to remember what you're offering and then when need it they will call you and they won't hesitate
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:well
[kim_hamer]:because they know that you really meant it so that's
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:my piece
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:so being someone who needs specific wording
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:so one who maybe you listening to score a specific word
[kim_hamer]:h ah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:how do i how do i say that to someone who's in need so i don't so i don't because
[kim_hamer]:hm
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:if i'm nervous i might go into the anything
[kim_hamer]:right
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:une thing
[kim_hamer]:right
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:so how do i specifically approach that if i'm can't try to be helpful
[kim_hamer]:well the first thing is you probably already said it so you can go back and say oh my god i just realized what i said was so wrong and i'm so sorry here's what i'd like to do to help you i am happy to bring you a meal every
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:thursday night so you don't have to worry about cooking
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:oh
[kim_hamer]:here's what i'd like to do to help you i know that you have
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:ye
[kim_hamer]:kids and sometimes it can be overwhelming to have is with an illness i'd like to take them to the movies on saturday would you be okay with that i will get back to you with the specific times here's how i'd like to help you i know that things run out you run out of things in the bath room right so another favorite tip is next time you're going you know here's what i'd like to help you with next time i go to the grocery store i'm going to call you and ask you what five things you're almost out of and i will pick them up and rot them off for you so just have start to think of a mental list right so it's just it's it's it's here's how i'd like to help and then you can call back two weeks later and go going to the grocery store again tomorrow let me know if you need anything or if you ned anything right now i can actually get it to you in the next hour you know um hey i'm taking all the kids all my kids out for ice cream love to swing by and pick up yours um you know i just finished doing my car registration when when does your car registration do because i'm happy to do it for you and you know if someone's if it's financial you're goin you an we can you can mom what what the amount is so it's being casual about it it's not for sort of putting that i will help you with your car and all things car you know like it's being a little more cash about it because there are some intense people who are coming in who want to really really help and get in there and then there are some other people who are way laid back who is like yeah you call me when you need me you kind of want to be this just sort of very gentle kind and loving presence that help
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:that's you that's very helpful because i know the people like okay i need specifics
[kim_hamer]:m hm
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:so you mentioned something else another
[kim_hamer]:i
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:aspect of this is employers don't get it
[kim_hamer]:yeah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:and as i study organizations and leadership the higher
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:you go up the ladder the less emotional intelligence you have as a leader uh
[kim_hamer]:keith
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:h
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:and it's because you work less and less with people
[kim_hamer]:ah well i'm going to agree that i think you have to if you want to be a good
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:ye
[kim_hamer]:leader the higher you go up the more emotional intelligence you need
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:right
[kim_hamer]:um so yes i think
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yes
[kim_hamer]:i agree with you as as bad leaders get promoted we do run into that
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:it
[kim_hamer]:where they get more more neander tallish because they get bigger teams and they get either ver egotistical or they get more afraid and so if they have a bigger team and they more afraid they more into micro managing and making sure everything is done the way they want it done which is the you know one of the definitions of lack of emotional intellit it's right not
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:right
[kim_hamer]:so um
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:it probably came off wrong but you
[kim_hamer]:yeah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:or i wouldn't say it came off it came
[kim_hamer]:just
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:up harsh
[kim_hamer]:harsh i think it's the right word don't think it came off wrong at all you're absolutely
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:oh
[kim_hamer]:right it came off absolutely right okay so what what's your question about that
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:so
[kim_hamer]:m
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:what are five things that
[kim_hamer]:ye
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:employers employees can do employers can do to kind of help
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:the workers who would have because i remember hanging
[kim_hamer]:yah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:story one time from an employer who said they were about to fire
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:let s name is frank
[kim_hamer]:hm
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:because frank was all of a sudden who was a really good employee was struggling to make m deadline struggling in this performance didn't realize that that frank mother was head cancer frank was about to lose
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:her home frank's kids were doing bad in school all the employers
[kim_hamer]:yes
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:saw was man frank who was so good at his job is just now just really struggling and until he talked to frank and said hey frank what's going on he didn't know all all the thing that it took frank to even show up at work on daily basis let alone the performance was suffering so what are five things employers can do to support some one who is struggling with issues
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:like cancer or love one is got answer
[kim_hamer]:i love that
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:i
[kim_hamer]:question we're going to continue to use frank as an example so this happens quite a bit it is not a requirement in the u s that an employee tell an employer that they have health difficulty it's helpful if the employe tell the employer because there's tools that we have as an organized as an organization as a country like the family medical leave act that help you take time off if you need it if you're sick and also protect your job but in frank's case frank didn't go to his manager or her manager and so the first thing is i and say to managers is ask and don't say you know your work is not doing just go what's going on because and you can say i have noticed in the last two months you have gone from being one of my top performers to the middle of the road and now you're dipping into the thing something s happening i'd like to help you but i can't help you if i don't know what's happening so i think that's the first thing and so that requires that the manager kind of back off right requires that emotional intelligence to understand that there something else going on and oftentimes as managers we get really frustrated because the person who is doing this work is not doing it well and now we feel like we need to take it on and so now we're taking on the extra work and now we're building this resentment because he making mistakes and they keep making you look bad but they also keep making themselves look bad and you're really confused like are they leaving i don't know you know you kind of get what's going on ahead so you start spinning these stories out so my first piece of advice is to stop and to ask what's happening what's going on the second thing i talked to managers about all the time is you have to acknowledge our feelings and this goes this will lead to what to say because i talk you about what not to but we're going to talk about how do you know what to say and the first thing i always tell people is you need to acknowledge your feelings because here's the deal cancer let's just take cancer for an example we have each of us has our own idea of what cancer means we may not have met anybody who as cancer but we've seen it on t v right we've seen the balding and the you know the tube that you know the person the hospital wheeling the tube the ivy thing down the hall right we have our own ideas of what cancer is and we have our own ideas of what somebody with cancer can and cannot do and it's really important that we explore those before we start taking any action if we have had cancer ourselves it will trigger something in us right it'll make ger that fear and sometimes our immediate reaction to fear is harshness it's like no not dealing with the fear so i'm going a go with you got to get your job done i don't care right it may we may i've had family members who have cancer who died so all of a sudden that fear comes up it may not even be conscious at that point but it's really important that we dive into and write about what we think cer does and is i have run into people who think cancer is contagious and so you have a manager who think ye're goin to get cancer from the employee well that and there's an emotional and physical thing since that occurs right so getting all your ideas about cancer and what you know on paper is really important and then sharing those ideas with somebody else is really important and here's why there's two specific reas one because you went you need to get correct information right we think a tumor is always cancerous we think all cancer employees get kimo it's not true but we don't know what's not true until we reveal what we think and and it's not about saying you don't know what you're talking about it's like actually some cancers can be cured just by surgery some cancers you do immunotherapy some cancers people can work all the way thou and you may never know some cancers guess what people keep their hair so just kind of dispelling any of the rumors the second reason that so important is because once you were veal to somebody else your emotions the other person usually goes oh yeah totally get that right and when we keep our thoughts and our emotions in our hands and then we judge them according to some rule we have in our head that's where we run into mistakes and the problem with emotions it's a problem but it's also a good thing emotions leak out of you so when you don't do this exercise whatever you think about cancer will leak out of you in your conversation with your employee with cancer in your conversation with h r trying to deal with the employe cancer in your conversations with the team members it eats out of you if you are terrified this person is going to die that will leak out of you in your conversations and that fear will also kind of spread so those are the two that i mean you know talking about your feelings and talking about your conversation and talking about feeling like you don't know what to say or what to do is really important part of the process
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:oh
[kim_hamer]:step three is in what to say and i just gave you all one thing be specific but really there is i wish there was one thing that everyone could say that everyone would know how heart felt it is and it would just be kind of right we'd say it and it'll be done um unfortunately that's not true so when you think about what to say you want to think about look you can say something as simple as i am so sorry this is happening to you and i don't know what else to say and i don't know what else to do but my heart is hurting know and if you if you don't have that kind of heart hurting lationship you can say i don't know what to say and i don't know what to do and i really i want to support you somehow i'll come back to you with some and then i hope we'll be helpful right because when you're saying something to somebody what you're doing is you're acknowledging where they're at you're not trying to fix it you're not trying to show them the sunny side so you know the you're not trying to tell them to be strong so this covers all those statements of well at least don't start your sentence with at least you trying to show them the sunny side you don't need to show the sunny side they will find the sunny side themselves and they will find it with you if you are open and kind and loving they will eventually say you know what i'm happy this stage two and not stage three right they'll come to it themselves it's not your job to make them feel better um you know they stay strong be strong while those comments we know that you mean them to be helpful they complete distance distance you from the person it's like you is like a mike drop to it's the worst mike drop ever stay strong great thank you so much i know that you want to help me out here like you want to help me say strong um so so if you're saying something that you feel that is not connecting you to the person so that you're seeing their journey then that's probably the time not to say anything or you might have to go back and say i'm sorry um so that's how you can know what to say if if you're thinking about saying something to somebody and it's choking you up a little bit that's the to say if you're thinking about saying someone to somebody and you just want to hug them while you're saying it that's the thing to say right um and it really comes from this heart god space it comes from this loving tender you know jesus wasn't out to fix jesus wasn't like hey you you stay strong man you got this can you imagine the bible was jesus running around going o man you got this you got this you're strong you got this don't worry about it don't worry about the epilepsy or the
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:deleporasy yeah
[kim_hamer]:leprosy exactly you
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:don't
[kim_hamer]:got
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:worry
[kim_hamer]:this
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:about don't worry about those limbs falling off
[kim_hamer]:exactly
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:it's okay
[kim_hamer]:exactly you got
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:this you hanging there
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:i firmly believe that god
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:healed by full acceptance people didn't want mary around they were like no she's not good she's jesus is like look look at who she is in her heart that's who that's why i want her around with me and so and so when you think about that you know you want that heart connection you want to look at that person in their heart and just you want to hurt for them it is so good for you to hurt for them that's the connection that we're all craving okay i've been enough on that one so let me move on because i can get really struck on this going this topic forever the fourth thing you want to do is you want to start to think ab thoughtful thoughtful actions and this is a huge bucket this is the biggest of the the i do three to five so this is the biggest of the five and those thoughtful actions at work stem go from covering their salary if your organization could afford it and can do it and wants to do it to making sure that they making sure that there is a work plan in place so that you and the employ rank is a great example if the conversations happen better around frank and the manager's next step is to sit down with frank and go okay you're on all these really important projects that we that i want you on what do you think you can do within each of these projects and let's be really honest what's what's your capacity right now and frank says well here's my capacity i know i can work on this one project and i want to do you know and i think i can get these are the do dates so you have to work on a work plan that you with frank your manager with you will work on together and that work plan needs to be revisited because frank's kids might get better quickly and all of a sudden frank is feeling like you he's got more energy so he can take on a little bit more the number one thing i've seen managers do which is a big mistake is they feel sorry for the employ and so they're like we'll take away all the projects will leave you with the simple things and that is like a demotion it feels like they're being punished for being sick and you're sending the message to the person you are too sick to do the work and i don't trust you i don't trust you bility to do the work and to you're sending the most the message to the team don't go to them and tell them that you're sick or something is wrong because they're going to take away the things that mean the most to you so you don't want to do that but have the conversation and revisit it because frank on kimo on month one it's going to be very different than frank on kimo in month three if the regiment goes through so frank on kimo might a month one might be able to and all the stuff frank on kimo might three month three might be saying you know what we got to download this is what i can do um so those are just some really quick examples of taking thoughtful action but there's so much thoughtful action that an organization can take that a company at you know that that can take and i do want to make one quick mention here it is illegal as an h representative i would be remiss if i didn't mention this it is illegal if frank comes to you as the manager and says i have cancer you as the manager cannot go around telling everyone that frank has cancer unless you get it in writing and you know usually the wording is you you have to permission might as an r person cover your butt and get it in writing and even when you get it in writing you want to be very thoughtful and that's one of the main conversations you want to have with frank in that of thoughtful action process is how many people know do you want them to know what do you want them to know do people are going to want to do something to help what do you want them to say to you we can teach people what to say to you so you don't have to hear any of those stupid things you're hearing on the outside world right so we can teach people this is a great opportunity to teach people what to say we can teach people what not to so we can help you so tell me what what you need now people are going to want to bring your meals frank do you want people showing up at your front door or would you just prefer a good old ober eats gift car because we can just have everyone donate there or the more advanced companies go this is the this is what we do for our employes who are dealing with an illness we offer a hundred you know a hundred and fifty dollars gift card to get you back and forth to work or to the kimo treatments or for family members whatever it is you need we offer you you know we allow employes to donate time off to you so you can use it in whatever way that you feel appropriate so some companies are really good and they have they have a sheet of what they do for everyone who's dealing with a crisis which is great most companies don't so that thoughtful action is a really important then the last thing is re visit and what i mean by this is sometimes cancer ends in death sometimes all those things i talked about in the beginning you can't go through a work plan because they employ drop dead or died in a car accident or whatever you know something else and so what i mean by revisit is sometimes it is revisiting the plan sometimes it's revisiting what what the company is doing and how you can support your employes dealing with it with a tragedy one of the things i always suggest that organizations do is that they hold their own memorial service and this is something that a lot of people are like oh my gosh it's such a great idea right so the person dies and the whole company is if it's a small company or even a big company a whole company can show up at the funeral and it's amazing for the family to see this group of people that love their significant other enough to take the day off to show up and pay their respects but that often leaves the employees still bereft and still not feeling like they had a chance to share and talk about this person and so i advise people to hold your own memorial service and there's so many different ways you can do this right can invite the family to hear about who they were at work i mean that's a really powerful thing because we don't often know who our significant others are at work right or you can just have it within the community with the organization you can you can set it up so people talk you can have no pictures put together there are so many different ways you can do it but what you do is you're telling the employes one this person mattered so it's a huge employe engagement and productivity lift so you're letting them know that if you die we're not just going to clean up your desk and say oh well too bad so sad we're going to miss you we're going to talk about you we're going to cry over you and that feels really good that that increases that sins belonging um the second thing it does is it gives it gives some employes you know some employes aren't going to go to the funeral because they feel like it's just too personal it gives it gives employes you know employes a safe space to come in and to talk some employers will sit in the back of the room and not say a damn thing other employes will want to talk um and then there's other things you can do in the organization that sort of kind of create a ritual around a debt and that ritual really signifies to the whole company this person mattered to us so just because they're not here doesn't mean you can't grieve them right so that ritual might be maybe you are going to hire our grief councilors and i love grief councilors and i love them when they come into work spaces but i don't like them when they come into work spaces two days after you know after the head of the com he has died because people are kind of like some people will go in but they're still in shock i think the perfect place for a grief counsellor and i know i'm going to get rapped for this at some point because i keep saying this a lot the perfect place for a grief councillor is around week four when things feel like they're going back to normal and i'm walking to the rest room and all of a sudden i think about joan and i burst out crying and i can't stop crying that's a great time for me to go sit with that grief council and go i'm just feeling so upset and i realize it's really affecting my life i've been losing my appetite and i'm scared i'm scared i'm going to die it that's the perfect place for that grief councillor um so so yeah so those are so the five you know so it's so it's you know ask your employ check in with your employ walk through your emotions um know what to say make take thoughtful action and always revisit so those are the five things
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:those are great let's focus it on the one the thoughtful actions because that's kind of what your
[kim_hamer]:h
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:book has a hundred acts of love
[kim_hamer]:yes
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:tell us what you hope when someone picks up
[kim_hamer]:ye
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:this book that can take out out of reading this book
[kim_hamer]:i held the go oh thank god and i really do mean like thank god thank you god for working through a verse to write this book because the main thing i want people to know is how much their actions and how much they matter i am not on the other side of this mike because i'm really courageous and really strong and got through my husband's death i am here cause of the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of things people did for us before and after my husband died and all those little things the ten dollars that some anonymous woman sent me because she read on my blog you know that that i was really worried about money and she said i know this isn't a lot but it's what i just feel led to send this ten dollars not much yet i still talk about it every chance i get so those little things that you do your little thing with someone else's little thing with someone else's little thing with someone else's little thing are the reason that i stand here today and i'm not you know massively sobbing at the moment so that's what i want people to get from the book i made it really easy to put it into sections so maybe you're really into food and you want to help with food or maybe you know you're you're good with cars and you want to help with clark and when i mean good with cars i mean can you can you pick up a car and drive it to take it to the mechanics right i don't mean you have to you don't have to know how to change a tire or remove spark plugs right you know how to help with kids how to help if you don't live near by how to help if you're at work how to help around birthdays and holidays so i broke it up into sections so people could figure out some place where they would be more comfortable helping and then kind of dive in and again like i said i wrote it so that really anyone can read it in about an hour it's a it's a quick read um you just kind of go through it and it's an it's got a sense of humor because i think that we often forget that you know yeah it's my husband dying as a tragedy no no no joke about it there's some really funny moments about it like i get to order what i have been able to order whatever i wanted my pizza for the last thirteen years there's no more of the yuckipeperroni touching my side you know so you know there are some humorous things and i think if you're if you have that kind of relationship with the person who's going through the crisis your job may be to bring in the humor it may be to tell the oke every week it may be you know to do the funny to tell the funny story that happened to you on the way to work this morning you may be the humors are and it may be the only time that person during that day but i think the point is to find something that you feel comfortable or sort of comfortable it's always going to be a little bit out of your comfort zone um but to just do it because what you do i wish i don't know if people can see this i've ever gonna see this but like i got my hands and they're sort of up by my face i'm like just shaking them like you matter i can not stress that enough what you do really matters so i think that's what i want people to take away from that book and it's really easy to help
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:that's so powerful and as a reminder that
[kim_hamer]:yeah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:we do need a community of people around us especially in times of grief
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:do whatever the little thing is that they can do to show that they care and that we're part of something a part of a community that's bigger than just us we're not in this situation
[kim_hamer]:m
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:alone
[kim_hamer]:exactly and i think we don't think like had you asked me before my husband was sick are we part of a community and i was like oh well we were living in north carolina we had this really great community there and yeah we were in you know but you have
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:i
[kim_hamer]:no idea what kind of community you're in until you let people know that you need help and all of a sudden you're like they're coming from here and there coming from here and the coming from here and your neighbor who you pass every morning whose name
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:do
[kim_hamer]:you don't know that you say hi to is showing up at your door of a sudden with lazana that's that's really powerful
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:it is so i love to ask my guest this is kind of
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:a closing question what do you want your legacy to be oh
[kim_hamer]:m i want my legacy to be i'm the woman who reminded them how important they were
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:right oh
[kim_hamer]:that's that's really it that's what i want i want my kids
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:ah
[kim_hamer]:know how important they are and how to show up for others and i want everyone who reads my book who comes to the website
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:who follows me on linked in whatever to come there be reminded of how important they are and they're not powerless they're actually more powerful than they think
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:that's great anything i haven't asked you that
[kim_hamer]:yeah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:i should have asked you
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:m
[kim_hamer]:the joke of the day
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:okay you have a joke of the day go
[kim_hamer]:okay what do you call i don't know which one to pick for those you don't know on instagram and on facebook i do monday joke day so i don't remember one from last week but here's one of my favorite ones
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:what
[kim_hamer]:what
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:you
[kim_hamer]:do
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:call
[kim_hamer]:you call two monkeys that haven't that share an amazon account
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:i have no idea in
[kim_hamer]:primates it's really bad but i love it
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:my son i hated he hates my dad jokes
[kim_hamer]:well clearly he's not emotionally intelligent enough to understand
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:that's
[kim_hamer]:them
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:true
[kim_hamer]:when he gets when he gets older he will he will appreciate
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:he
[kim_hamer]:them
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:will
[kim_hamer]:much
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:appreciate
[kim_hamer]:more
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:because
[kim_hamer]:oh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:i had a great one yesterday i was
[kim_hamer]:ah
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:at i was in a doctor's office and
[kim_hamer]:uh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:you felt the hippo form and he
[kim_hamer]:huh
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:said did you feel it out like well i'm too hipped to be square so you know oh
[kim_hamer]:that's good i like that
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:sure there's your next monday morning joke
[kim_hamer]:exactly
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:to hip be square
[kim_hamer]:to hip in to be squared you know that's a great h r joke
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:there you go there
[kim_hamer]:h r love that that's my har joke i just wrote it down
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:there you go
[kim_hamer]:m
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah so one more time we can people find your book a
[kim_hamer]:m
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:hundred acts of love and how kind
[kim_hamer]:m
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:of connect with you in social media
[kim_hamer]:well thank you for asking keith i appreciate that so first of all if you would like to know four other things never
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:to say to anybody with cancer and what to say instead
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:please go to please to one hundred acts of love dot com and that's the number one hundred acts of love dot com back slash
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:what
[kim_hamer]:what not to say so
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:no
[kim_hamer]:no no spaces no capitals what not to say and you'll at that incredible free download where i not only tell you what not to say i tell you why it's not a good thing to say so that you can really kind of understand and see the themes that go through and then what to say instead if you want to buy book go to one hundred acts of love dot com and you can go back slash shop or just see the book and tap on that or you can go
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:oh
[kim_hamer]:to amazon and lastly people can find me on linked in also on instagram at one hundred acts of love dot com and i'm always if you
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:have a question or anything you want an answer to i'm starting up my linked in lives again soon so every thursday i'll be on linked in and if you have a question that you want to know just message me any time and i will
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:yeah
[kim_hamer]:actually answer your question during my linked in life
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:well kim thanks so much for the time this was a great conversation and blessings on what you do and blessings on your book may people reach out to you find that and be able to encourage people and know kind of how to come alongside and support it i'm a community to those people who especially in need
[kim_hamer]:well keith thank you so much i really appreciate what this has been a great conversation i'm excited that you enjoyed my sense of humor because not everybody does
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:what when you have the same kind of humor is an easy
[kim_hamer]:exactly
[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]:oh m