America Needs to Rediscover the Her Virtues

The political scene in America is troubling.  In this episode, we talk about how we elect leaders with integrity.  My guest is author Richard Raines.  Richard Raines is the author of "Finding Washington: Why America Needs to Rediscover the Virtues of Her Most Essential Founding Father"  and a Professor of Theology and Church History.  He is a former CEO and elected County Commissioner.  He and his wife Jessica have five children and live in Northeast Florida

Transcript

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 0:59

well richard welcome to this show is so good to have you on

[richard_raines]: 1:02

thank you keith thank you for having me

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 1:04

i'm looking forward to this conversation i love history and one of my favorite things is talking about history so this will be a interesting conversation

[richard_raines]: 1:14

yeah i find people either really enjoy history or they're just bored to day i read something on the internet few months ago that said and i'm fifty one don't know how old you are but it said when a

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 1:24

man

[richard_raines]: 1:24

man turns for he's got he's got a decision to make he can either get really into world war two history or he can get into smoking meat and i gotten into both so i don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing but yeah i love history too

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 1:37

i see i love history and smoking meat so we're a lot of like that

[richard_raines]: 1:42

i think so

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 1:43

but then i also posted pictures on facebook just to make all my neighbors jealous i don't give him any but

[richard_raines]: 1:48

i'm not

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 1:48

but

[richard_raines]: 1:48

there

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 1:48

i do

[richard_raines]: 1:48

yet

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 1:48

posted on facebook

[richard_raines]: 1:51

so

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 1:51

what's

[richard_raines]: 1:51

what's

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 1:51

your

[richard_raines]: 1:52

your signature signature recipe keith

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 1:55

well i love my wife loves the ribs that i make um i discovered new things to smoke like i double smoked ham which is kind of cool

[richard_raines]: 2:04

yeah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 2:04

and i smoked a turkey for thanksgiving which really nice

[richard_raines]: 2:08

i bet it was oh i bet it was good

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 2:10

yeah

[richard_raines]: 2:11

yeah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 2:12

i have not perfected brisket yet i'm still working on the brisket that one is tough

[richard_raines]: 2:18

i'm not ready for brisket either brother you'll you'll throw a lot of money away if you don't know what you're doing smoking brisket

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 2:24

which is why i have a small brisket but it's it's a little dry so

[richard_raines]: 2:28

oh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 2:28

yeah

[richard_raines]: 2:29

yeah that's perfect

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 2:31

so i'm goin to ask you a question to kind of warm up a little bit besides barba talk which we could talk smoking all day but that would be a whole nother podcast just on how to smoke meat so what's the best advice you ever received

[richard_raines]: 2:45

the best advice i ever received that's a good question m i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 2:51

had

[richard_raines]: 2:51

had a professor in college he pastor to church i went to a christian school in tennessee and

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 2:58

no

[richard_raines]: 2:58

this this pastor slash professor was a was a real mentor for me and he

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 3:05

yes

[richard_raines]: 3:05

said the worst advice he

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 3:07

ever

[richard_raines]: 3:07

ever got he was going to tell me to stay away from that and so so the best advice i ever got was not to follow your heart

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 3:16

okay

[richard_raines]: 3:16

you hear all the time follow your heart follow you follow your dreams he said you don't want to follow your heart because following your heart the bible says the heart is evil the imaginations are so he said he said pray for

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 3:30

go

[richard_raines]: 3:30

god to saturate you with his passions and his desires and then follow god so

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 3:39

that

[richard_raines]: 3:39

that's the best advice i've ever gotten is not to follow your heart

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 3:43

that's really good i never thought about that before yeah because the heart can be just a really bad place

[richard_raines]: 3:50

for sure

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 3:50

or

[richard_raines]: 3:51

that's that's exactly right so pray for god to purify your desires

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 3:54

i

[richard_raines]: 3:55

and then then

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 3:56

all

[richard_raines]: 3:56

follow god

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 3:58

i have to remember that now i'm gonna write that down and i always tell my guest sometimes it's really good advice i'll give you crede first three times but

[richard_raines]: 4:05

uh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:05

you know the first time

[richard_raines]: 4:06

uh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:06

is

[richard_raines]: 4:06

yeah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:06

like as keith always says

[richard_raines]: 4:09

that's where that's exactly right i hear you mission granted

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:16

so tell us something about yourself that most people don't know

[richard_raines]: 4:22

that's interesting i kind of live

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:23

i

[richard_raines]: 4:23

out loud so most people

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:28

so

[richard_raines]: 4:28

don't

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:28

don't

[richard_raines]: 4:28

know

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:28

know

[richard_raines]: 4:29

because it's embarrassing but

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:31

but

[richard_raines]: 4:32

most

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:32

most

[richard_raines]: 4:32

people don't know that over the last couple of years

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:34

years i

[richard_raines]: 4:35

i have

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:36

have

[richard_raines]: 4:36

developed claustrophobia so um

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:40

i

[richard_raines]: 4:40

i went to college in tennessee and we would we would go cave diving i don't think you know what

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:45

that

[richard_raines]: 4:45

that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:46

is

[richard_raines]: 4:46

is or not but you just go exploring in s and

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:48

i

[richard_raines]: 4:48

i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:48

work

[richard_raines]: 4:48

worked

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:49

with

[richard_raines]: 4:49

with our churches youth and we would take youth to these caves and we would put hard

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 4:53

he

[richard_raines]: 4:53

hats on and get flashlights and go cave diving and i've never been clostraphobic but i was in i think my wife and i were going through a car wash one day and

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:03

i

[richard_raines]: 5:03

i just started

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:03

at

[richard_raines]: 5:04

getting really

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:05

anxious

[richard_raines]: 5:05

anxious and and

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:07

so

[richard_raines]: 5:07

so it happened to me in an elevator

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:08

let

[richard_raines]: 5:09

a couple of times and so i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:11

take

[richard_raines]: 5:11

think my wife is well

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:13

now

[richard_raines]: 5:13

now

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:13

i

[richard_raines]: 5:13

everybody listen to your show but my wife was real the only only one that knew that that that i have developed plostrophobia later in life and it's so annoying because i'm so particular

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:25

but

[richard_raines]: 5:25

about my car i don't like my car to be dirty and i can't just go through a car wash i have to go somewhere where you you know get

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:32

the

[richard_raines]: 5:32

out of

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:32

car

[richard_raines]: 5:32

the car and they give you a ticket and they do it you know they take it around which is more expensive right and so

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:37

and

[richard_raines]: 5:37

in

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:37

my

[richard_raines]: 5:37

my

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:37

kid

[richard_raines]: 5:37

case you're old enough they won't watch my car for me and so

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:40

that's

[richard_raines]: 5:40

that's that's my only two choices

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:41

ah

[richard_raines]: 5:42

is to get other and do

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:42

my

[richard_raines]: 5:42

it myself pay somebody you know twenty five dollars to watch the car for you

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:47

yeah

[richard_raines]: 5:47

but

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:48

yeah

[richard_raines]: 5:49

that's it

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:50

see a great thing about this

[richard_raines]: 5:51

it's

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:51

podcast

[richard_raines]: 5:51

a great thing about this podcast

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:53

my guests share a cast

[richard_raines]: 5:54

my

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:54

of private

[richard_raines]: 5:54

guest

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:54

information

[richard_raines]: 5:56

uh you

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 5:59

yes

[richard_raines]: 5:59

just you just keeping it all in a file somewhere for for for your your use one day maybe

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 6:05

that's right you never know yeah so who are some people who inspired you in life

[richard_raines]: 6:13

a good question

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 6:14

the

[richard_raines]: 6:14

the the professor that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 6:17

i

[richard_raines]: 6:17

i talked about he was really a big inspiration for me

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 6:20

yeah

[richard_raines]: 6:20

at the the church that i attended when i became a christian i became a christian when i was sixteen full of some of the most wonderful people that you would

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 6:32

every

[richard_raines]: 6:32

ever meet keith that love jesus but

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 6:34

they

[richard_raines]: 6:34

they

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 6:34

were

[richard_raines]: 6:35

were they

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 6:36

we're

[richard_raines]: 6:36

were

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 6:36

leg

[richard_raines]: 6:36

legalist really you know into legalism which you know thought

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 6:41

and i know

[richard_raines]: 6:41

knew what legalism was and then i went to college and instead of condemning me in my legalism these few professors so there was two professors

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 6:52

that

[richard_raines]: 6:54

one dr john lombard he passed or to church in town he was instrumental in helping me understand how to read the bible understand what my call was um

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 7:06

yeah

[richard_raines]: 7:06

and and really help me to embrace a love for studying the

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 7:11

i

[richard_raines]: 7:11

bible at a at a higher level um sort of an academic level and then another one of my professors who

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 7:18

oh

[richard_raines]: 7:18

um she made such an impact on me that when i was trying to decide to go to graduate school i called her one day and said hey i'm looking for a graduate school she said well i teach at regent university and that's really

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 7:30

all

[richard_raines]: 7:30

all i needed to hear but her name dr kimberley alexander she's a professor of christian history and she

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 7:37

out

[richard_raines]: 7:37

and i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 7:37

here

[richard_raines]: 7:37

share all

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 7:38

think

[richard_raines]: 7:39

things history of christian because i teach christian theology and i teach the history of christianity and dr alexander was my thesis supervisor going through gradual schooling and i took several classes with her and she's really one of my mentor so so two of the most influential people for me were college professors and a graduate school professor and then i'd say third and this is not in any kind of order but you know now that i'm older and my kids are older and my father passed away

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 8:12

a

[richard_raines]: 8:12

several years ago and my father

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 8:15

a

[richard_raines]: 8:16

did not he didn't complete high school he quit high school in the twelfth grade um always really hard work or very blue collar but my

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 8:23

my

[richard_raines]: 8:23

father had a great sense of humor and he could fix anything he was my

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 8:28

that

[richard_raines]: 8:28

dad was highly intelligent and i didn't even realize it until after he died but i think about some of the things i say and think particularly things that i say to my kids and i can hear

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 8:40

my

[richard_raines]: 8:40

my dad's voice in my

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 8:42

i had

[richard_raines]: 8:42

head before i say it and so it's hard for me not to really be influenced by my dad so i'd say really those three and a lot of others

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 8:51

why

[richard_raines]: 8:51

my wife inspires me because

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 8:52

i

[richard_raines]: 8:53

my wife is a spiritual one in our family you know she keeps me grounded and now if my neger reaction is to complain

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 9:01

are

[richard_raines]: 9:01

or argue

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 9:01

you

[richard_raines]: 9:01

or throw something across the room her neger reaction is always to pray and so she keeps me grounded and humble that way

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 9:09

at's so neat that's always good to have those people in

[richard_raines]: 9:12

a

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 9:12

your life who do inspire you

[richard_raines]: 9:14

sure

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 9:16

so let's dive into why you came on the show what led you to write the book finding washington why america needs to rediscover the virtues of her most essential founding father

[richard_raines]: 9:28

that's a good question and it's the second most asked question and i won't tell you what the first most asked question

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 9:33

eh

[richard_raines]: 9:34

is because i bet you ask it before the interview is over so in twenty sixteen and i been involved in politics i've served in

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 9:42

with

[richard_raines]: 9:42

public

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 9:42

all

[richard_raines]: 9:43

office for a while elected office enjoyed it loved it served with some fantastic people is a really good experience for me and so

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 9:51

think

[richard_raines]: 9:51

think

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 9:51

about

[richard_raines]: 9:52

about politics pay attention to politics and in twenty sixteen when the republican

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 9:57

what

[richard_raines]: 9:58

and the democrat primary ended this was when hilary clinton was the democratic nominee and donald trump was a republican nominee when those two republiwhen those two conventions ended and we were certain who the

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 10:12

no

[richard_raines]: 10:12

nominees were going to be i remember saying to myself that in november

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 10:20

we

[richard_raines]: 10:20

i will

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 10:20

have

[richard_raines]: 10:20

have to choose between the worst presidential candidate of my

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 10:23

i

[richard_raines]: 10:23

lifetime or the second worst presidential candidate of my lifetime and because neither

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 10:29

very

[richard_raines]: 10:29

of those candidates in this not the first time this happened to me it was just so obvious in twenty sixteen that neither of these candidates reflected my christian values i didn't think and so

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 10:42

i

[richard_raines]: 10:42

i was gonna i was forced to have to go to the ballot box again in november and choose what

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 10:47

i

[richard_raines]: 10:47

i consider to be um m

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 10:50

lot

[richard_raines]: 10:50

a lot

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 10:50

of

[richard_raines]: 10:51

of ways the best of two evils and so i started looking for figures in american history that have inspired

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 11:00

i

[richard_raines]: 11:00

americans to do good things and be better and keith i didn't get too far because once i started researching george washington i discovered that with the exception of

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 11:17

i

[richard_raines]: 11:17

the last probably ten years george washington has been the

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 11:22

we

[richard_raines]: 11:22

number one most influential founding father there's not even there's not even a good comparison he's number one by a long shot and so i started researching george washington and really looking for

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 11:39

i

[richard_raines]: 11:40

a figure that was easily

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 11:42

identify

[richard_raines]: 11:42

identifiable by americans there's been you know something

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 11:46

i

[richard_raines]: 11:46

like nine hundred books if i remember correctly written on george washington's

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 11:50

i

[richard_raines]: 11:50

life so a lot written on george washington and so

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 11:53

what

[richard_raines]: 11:54

what

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 11:54

i

[richard_raines]: 11:54

i decided to do was i decided to to tell stories from george washington's life many stories that most of us have never heard before and

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 12:04

and

[richard_raines]: 12:04

then

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 12:05

i

[richard_raines]: 12:05

identify virtues that he displayed in those moments and then make an argument for

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 12:10

wow

[richard_raines]: 12:10

why we need a revival of virtue in our culture so the so

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 12:16

what

[richard_raines]: 12:16

what

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 12:16

i

[richard_raines]: 12:16

i'm

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 12:16

really

[richard_raines]: 12:16

really

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 12:17

do

[richard_raines]: 12:17

doing keith is i'm using george washington to make an argument about

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 12:20

how

[richard_raines]: 12:21

how we need to change

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 12:23

look

[richard_raines]: 12:23

our culture to become more virtuous with more integrity and more civility

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 12:30

a

[richard_raines]: 12:31

we need to highlight service leadership more than we do now we need a revival of empathy and courage and hope these things and so that's really what drove me to to write the book

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 12:43

that's powerful when i talked to people about the election i remember having to have a similar kind of conversation and i told people especially christian people because again right the values were kind of hard to down fight and the canadates

[richard_raines]: 12:56

hm

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 12:57

and i had to come down to kind of my own way of saying i'm electing a president not a pastor um

[richard_raines]: 13:05

m

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 13:05

but i wasn't comfortable saying that either you're right because you would like you would like virtues to be lifted up and it was interesting because this was this was tough season and we're in a tough place in our country and i think you're right

[richard_raines]: 13:20

hm

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 13:20

what is what has been missing and what's lacking right now i see is the ability for both sides to have a discussion and to debate

[richard_raines]: 13:30

hm

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 13:31

and to put before the american people their theory of the case in terms of es that are good for people

[richard_raines]: 13:38

m

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 13:39

and i think this right was missing as the virtuous conversation the respect for each other in the conversation the name calling i just had i've

[richard_raines]: 13:49

m

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 13:49

had i've had to unfriend so many people on social media from the last couple elections just because of the negative talk that i ran across on social media

[richard_raines]: 13:59

yeah it's it's a cess pool of

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:03

by

[richard_raines]: 14:03

ideas is what it is and it doesn't

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:04

do

[richard_raines]: 14:05

even reflect

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:05

a

[richard_raines]: 14:06

the majority

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:06

already

[richard_raines]: 14:07

of ideas in my opinion but it but it's what people pay attention to it's that you know it's that squeaky wheel gets the oil kind of thing because most americans most americans don't have trouble talking to people

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:23

what

[richard_raines]: 14:23

that they disagree with most americans don't but the anonymity

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:27

a

[richard_raines]: 14:28

and the distant like some of the things you read on social media keith you would never say face

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:35

thank

[richard_raines]: 14:35

to face to another person i mean you know that's how fights get started you know that's that's how you

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:40

your

[richard_raines]: 14:40

get your

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:40

team

[richard_raines]: 14:40

teeth knocked out saying some of these things to people that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:42

no

[richard_raines]: 14:42

you know you have no recourse so there's there's no record for the things that you

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:46

thank

[richard_raines]: 14:46

say

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:46

you

[richard_raines]: 14:47

on social media and

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:48

my

[richard_raines]: 14:48

so um

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:50

i

[richard_raines]: 14:50

i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:50

agree

[richard_raines]: 14:50

agree with you

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:51

no

[richard_raines]: 14:51

and i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:51

i

[richard_raines]: 14:51

think the problem keith is is what i call tribalism so we have we have developed into

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 14:58

yeah

[richard_raines]: 14:58

tribes which i think is bad but the worst part of it is the hypocrisy that accompanies that travel is a meaning that if my tribe

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 15:08

i

[richard_raines]: 15:08

does something it's good if your does the same thing it's bad now

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 15:14

that

[richard_raines]: 15:14

that's stupidity on a

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 15:15

we

[richard_raines]: 15:15

level that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 15:16

i

[richard_raines]: 15:16

i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 15:17

never

[richard_raines]: 15:17

never

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 15:17

ought

[richard_raines]: 15:17

thought that i would see in america it's ignorance is okay ignorance means you don't know stupidity you know when you do it anyway

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 15:24

ah

[richard_raines]: 15:25

right and so i think that's really the worst part of it

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 15:31

so writing this book about george washington what do you what do you think is a most common misconcept because i've heard a lot of i think you know ignorance of history is also bad and we

[richard_raines]: 15:42

yeah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 15:42

have we have so much ignorance of our founding fathers and it's really interesting to me because we have we have created and we've even changed history to go like you just said to to match the narrative of our tribes so we just change

[richard_raines]: 15:58

hm

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 15:58

history to do that i just had a talk with someone recently about i think it was wwdeboysand i'm not sure i have to look at this quote but his understanding of the constant utan was he's like we have to live up to the high calling of this document he didn't want to destroy

[richard_raines]: 16:16

m

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 16:16

the entire system is like you have a good document here good foundation let's have him can live up to the high standards of that calling and that gets lost in some of the conversations that we're having now so tell us what do you think is the most misunderstood thing about george washin that people would be surprised by

[richard_raines]: 16:36

that's a good question so the first thing that comes to mind is

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 16:40

oh

[richard_raines]: 16:40

ah the myth of washington chopping down a cherry tree when he was a youth that's

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 16:46

yeah

[richard_raines]: 16:46

a myth that's not a true story the myth him having real teeth pulled from others you had wooden false teeth by by every

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 16:57

every

[richard_raines]: 16:57

historical record that i can find but i would say the one thing that most people don't know

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 17:02

i

[richard_raines]: 17:02

i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 17:02

don't

[richard_raines]: 17:02

don't

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 17:02

know

[richard_raines]: 17:02

know that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 17:03

at

[richard_raines]: 17:03

it's a myth as much it is just completely misunderstood i'm not speaking hyperbolic or this is not hyperbole but we would not be the republic that we have with the constitution that we have if it were not for george washington now you've probably heard that george washington is the father of our nation right that's a term that most of us at least have heard but i did not even realize what that meant keith until i started researching i won't tell the entire story because it's a long story but essentially you know after the revolutionary war the united states was organized under the articles of confederation where the states had

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 17:48

all

[richard_raines]: 17:48

all

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 17:48

the

[richard_raines]: 17:48

the power and the government had the national government which is what it was called had

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 17:54

almost

[richard_raines]: 17:54

almost had almost no power

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 17:57

there

[richard_raines]: 17:57

and there

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 17:57

was

[richard_raines]: 17:57

was a

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 17:57

rebellion

[richard_raines]: 17:58

rebellion up in massachusetts of some farmers that didn't want to pay their taxes called shays rebellion that really revealed that the states had too much power and george washington was really worried about it so george washington is the one that gathered people at mount vernon to talk about the need for a new government and a new constitution and if it were

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 18:22

no

[richard_raines]: 18:22

not for him because he presided

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 18:24

i

[richard_raines]: 18:25

over the constitutional convention if it were

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 18:27

not

[richard_raines]: 18:28

not for him

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 18:30

don't

[richard_raines]: 18:30

not

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 18:30

leave

[richard_raines]: 18:30

only would those people not have gotten together but

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 18:34

i

[richard_raines]: 18:34

i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 18:35

don't

[richard_raines]: 18:35

don't

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 18:35

think

[richard_raines]: 18:35

think that the union would have been preserved under the articles of confederation

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 18:39

right

[richard_raines]: 18:40

and thirdly because

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 18:42

we

[richard_raines]: 18:42

there were so many devicive issues during the constitutional convention because it was big states versus small states northern states versus southern states the

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 18:52

lot

[richard_raines]: 18:53

lot

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 18:53

of

[richard_raines]: 18:53

of things that divided

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 18:53

i did

[richard_raines]: 18:54

the states and slavery was one of those issues that if it weren't for george washington we

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 19:00

but

[richard_raines]: 19:01

never

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 19:01

what

[richard_raines]: 19:01

would have settled those

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 19:02

i

[richard_raines]: 19:02

issues and we never would have become a republic and so most people don't know that about him i didn't know it i didn't know the extent and so when we say that george washington is the father of our nation he is literally the father of the nation and so that's one of the things that i discovered that that really um m after after i did quite a bit of research it didn't surprise me but you would think that that would be something that would be high

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 19:33

like

[richard_raines]: 19:33

lighted as part of his life but that was one

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 19:36

i think

[richard_raines]: 19:36

of the things that i discovered

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 19:38

so to go full circle now we're at a point where i say the government the national government has too much power and now

[richard_raines]: 19:48

right

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 19:48

there's talk of how do the states balance out a federal government that's becoming too large again i love history too i love looking at so i think it's an interesting conversation

[richard_raines]: 20:00

yeah it is i think it is too and i think you're right and i think the average person

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 20:06

ah

[richard_raines]: 20:06

the average person agrees and there was a supreme court case that got the ball rolling on and i don't i don't know spring court

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 20:12

well

[richard_raines]: 20:12

wall very well i don't don't know when it happened but it was related to farming and it was related to either the growing of grain or corn i think growing of corn

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 20:23

yeah

[richard_raines]: 20:23

where it's the interstate commerce claws in the constitution

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 20:26

ye

[richard_raines]: 20:26

where there was a farmer somewhere

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 20:27

were

[richard_raines]: 20:28

that grew more corn than the federal government said you should grow because

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 20:32

here

[richard_raines]: 20:32

they were trying to control the price of corn he said who are you to tell me how much corn to grow he grew as much as he wanted

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 20:36

ah

[richard_raines]: 20:37

and he was sued made it to the supreme court and the supreme court ruled the federal government has power over interstate commerce meaning commerce between states and so that knew

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 20:47

yeah

[richard_raines]: 20:47

that um supreme court ruling is really what

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 20:51

you

[richard_raines]: 20:51

got the ball rolling on this big federal

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 20:54

all

[richard_raines]: 20:54

government and being someone who served in local government i was a county commissioner in georgia's sixth largest county lounds

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 21:01

oh

[richard_raines]: 21:01

county if you saw the netflix special on title town the valdausta wildcat that is lounds county georgia and so m we had to deal with the state government quite a bit and it's you would be shocked maybe you wouldn't most people would be shocked to

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 21:18

a

[richard_raines]: 21:18

learn the extent to which the federal government holds money over the heads of states for roads and bridges and education to make states pass laws

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 21:29

oh

[richard_raines]: 21:30

that they want them to pass because if states say i'm not going to do x y z then the federal government whoever the president is can say we're not going to give you any money for roads and bridges which it costs a lot of cost if you know this but it costs almost half a million dollars to pave one mile of road it's very expensive if you don't have a road

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 21:48

there

[richard_raines]: 21:49

there if it's a dirt road and then they say we're going to hold withhold education ne from you and if you want to get a group of people riled up in any state you get the teachers riled up over money

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 22:00

yeah

[richard_raines]: 22:00

and so anyway

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 22:02

it

[richard_raines]: 22:02

so so yeah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 22:03

we

[richard_raines]: 22:03

we've got to do something and i'm not sure keith i know the answer

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 22:06

i know

[richard_raines]: 22:06

i know part of the answer and hopefully part of the answer lies in the book that i wrote finding washington but it's a complex issue

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 22:16

so where do you hope people take out of your book want

[richard_raines]: 22:20

i want keith people to read the book i give my email throughout the book is richard at

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 22:28

i

[richard_raines]: 22:28

finding washington dot com and what

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 22:30

i want

[richard_raines]: 22:31

i want a couple of things so number one i want people to realize

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 22:35

o

[richard_raines]: 22:35

that you are not powerless

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 22:38

we

[richard_raines]: 22:39

because when you look at our culture and the degradation of it you look at how violent we are and how oversexualized we are and you look at how vulgar we are right you look at the dead gradation of society and you think i am just one person i want people to realize

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 22:59

a

[richard_raines]: 22:59

that kay that every movement starts with one person so you deciding that you're going to live a life based on traditional virtues virtues that have set the world on fire as far back as we can go

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 23:17

not

[richard_raines]: 23:17

and not just european virtues these are virtues that the chinese adopted in asia you know a thousand years ago these are virtues at transcend time and transcend religion and the virtues that humans have adopted as as good principles to live by that if if you will adopt virtue and you will pass those virtues on to your kids and if you own a business if you will run a business with virtue and you will hire people of virtue and you will promote

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 23:46

oh

[richard_raines]: 23:46

people with virtue and when you go to the ballot box and listen this is

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 23:50

i

[richard_raines]: 23:50

what

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 23:50

got

[richard_raines]: 23:50

i'm about to say is going to sound to some people revolutionary but what if keith what

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 23:58

yeah

[richard_raines]: 23:58

if when we went to the voting booth in november that the very first thing that we considered when voting for another person is whether

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 24:11

the

[richard_raines]: 24:12

or not they have integrity for everything else what if i looked at the ballot and i did my research and before i saw r or d or i or

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 24:21

whatever

[richard_raines]: 24:21

whatever you know whatever they are what if i said i am going to vote for the people on this ballot that have the most integrity if we as voters and we as citizens make integrity important for politics and for business then politicians and business

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 24:37

ye

[richard_raines]: 24:38

leaders will make integrity important because they have a stake in it and so that's what i want people to take from this book that you have more power

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 24:45

work

[richard_raines]: 24:46

than you think and if communities will start coming together and discussing these things and school boards would come to eh and start discussing these things and civic organizations will start discussing these things

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 24:58

i would

[richard_raines]: 24:58

i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 24:59

like

[richard_raines]: 24:59

would

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 24:59

to

[richard_raines]: 24:59

like to see a true revival and i'm a christian and i talk

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 25:02

yeah

[richard_raines]: 25:02

in christian terms that's kind of the world i know and so revival means something in christian speak and so when i say revival of virtue i mean it as traditionally as you could possibly mean it in terms of as near to a religious fervor as you could possibly get but i am

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 25:24

no

[richard_raines]: 25:24

i'm not happy keith

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 25:25

i don't

[richard_raines]: 25:25

i don't think that i'm leaving my kids a better

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 25:28

no

[richard_raines]: 25:29

world i think my dad left me a better place keith i think i've squandered it i think i spent too much time on my phone and i spent too much time on netflix and i think about me more than i think about others sometimes i don't serve like i should

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 25:44

go

[richard_raines]: 25:44

i go to the and i get caught up in the tribal

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 25:47

i

[richard_raines]: 25:48

ism and i just go in and either

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 25:51

they

[richard_raines]: 25:51

vote on

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 25:51

all

[richard_raines]: 25:51

all rs or don't vote at all so what's wrong with me

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 25:57

i ave

[richard_raines]: 25:57

i have to take some some responsibility for it and so i want to see us transform our culture

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 26:04

so let me ask a question if washington was here today what virtue do we see most prominently displayed by him do we think that's really missing in our society today

[richard_raines]: 26:18

i think there's two well there's

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 26:20

i

[richard_raines]: 26:20

one and it's related so

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 26:22

i would

[richard_raines]: 26:22

i would

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 26:22

say

[richard_raines]: 26:22

say that integrity now let me explain

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 26:26

what

[richard_raines]: 26:26

what i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 26:26

i

[richard_raines]: 26:26

mean

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 26:26

mean

[richard_raines]: 26:26

by that um and

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 26:29

i

[richard_raines]: 26:29

i make

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 26:29

make

[richard_raines]: 26:29

a case

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 26:29

a

[richard_raines]: 26:30

the book about it kind of make fun of myself and the book keith but if there was a room full of there's a hundred people in the room i hate to brag like i don't like to brag but if there were a hundred people in a room there would have to be someone in that room that was the best at math and someone in the room that was the worst at math and i got to tell you man as home bly as i can i would be the person that's the worst at math in that room and so stinking math but i did learn something in college math and that is what an integer is an integer is a whole number not a fraction that's where we get the word integrity from and so washington exhibited integrity meaning that when he discovered what was right he didn't in most instances he was a human he wasn't jesus he committed himself to those principles and he did what is right whether it was popular or not we saw that through the revolutionary war he was accused of essentially his some of his other generals were trying to have him removed and and rather than defend himself he saw an opportunity to get supplies and things for his troops and when congress came to to to to investigate these charges against him he didn't even defend himself he just used as an opportunity to to advocate for his troops and congress saw that he was a man of integrity and they just missed the charges against him i think that i think washington would be alarmed at the devisiveness in politics the money in politics and the blatant lack of integrity in politics and so i think that's the virtue he displayed the most and coincidentally think it is the virtue most missing in business in politics and quite frankly in the home

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 29:33

ah i love that the question i have though we haven't seen that in so long when we recognize that we would believe it if we actually saw it in a candidate oh

[richard_raines]: 29:44

that's a good question keith that i think that m i think most of us have an authenticity meter you can you can you can you can smell authenticity right and so

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 29:59

yeah

[richard_raines]: 29:59

sometimes that authenticity comes across as when people try to fake authenticity it never lines up with who they are as a person i give you a really good example um m um m he's a republican out in texas ted cruse ted cruse i like ted cruise i think it makes a lot of sense i think he interprets constitution really well kind of has this you know grass roots on one of you kind of people but if you remember during covid um m he was discovered in mexico celebrating with his family right now i like ted cruise but boy it didn't line up with all the things that he said and i'm not saying he has to be perfect but i think that i think that people's ctivity their words i think that will smell it for the most part there will be some people that get by but i think that you can you can identify authenticity and that's really what i think we're looking for i'll give you good example of authenticity and integrity she's a former democrat she ran for president she's from hawaii tulse gabbard i think tulse gabbard out of all the people who have been in politics in the last twenty five years she strikes me as one who probably is more authentic and has more integrity than probably anybody that i've cast a vote for so there are some of those people out there we just have to find them

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 31:25

we're

[richard_raines]: 31:25

but

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 31:26

both

[richard_raines]: 31:26

again if we make that important

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 31:28

right

[richard_raines]: 31:28

then politicians will will begin to move in that direction

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 31:32

being that we're christen we come at this from a christian perspective and i think that and faith is under assault it appears to me in our society to day what role do you see faith playing in our society and in our politics

[richard_raines]: 31:51

it's a great question that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 31:52

i

[richard_raines]: 31:52

i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 31:53

have

[richard_raines]: 31:53

have a section in my book because that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 31:55

a

[richard_raines]: 31:56

just back up so when so over a career of writing as a free lance writer writing a newspaper column for years writing in magazines and things like that i have only written to a specific y christian audience everything i've ever written keith has been four christians about christianity so when i sat down to write this book i'm like okay do i write this book for christians or do i write this book for a secular audience or do i try to split the difference and so what i did was i trying to split the for its meaning that i want to appeal to all americans but i'm going to include just enough of my faith in this book that people who get it get it but i did include section in one of the chapters why not jesus i'm getting to your answer your question because in my opinion the answer to all of this is the gospel of jesus christ that's the answer men and women who who confess with their mouth that jesus is lord and believe in their hearts that god has raised him from the dead that is the answer to sin which is this is a sin problem we're talking about right so so you asked me what role does faith play i think i think faith in jesus is is the key but i don't want faith legislated because if you legislate faith when people come along that don't share my faith begin to legislate it that's not fun but what i do want keith is i want americans to turn to jesus and i want the people who are serving in the halls of congress and in state houses and county commissions and city councils and school boards and h o as i want them sold out to jesus and sold out to the men and of the kingdom of god so that i don't have to worry about them legislating faith cause i know that the people who are making the laws are men and women of faith does that make sense does that answer question

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 33:59

it does and it is great i like that too and that's what is so hard because we're seeing the opposite that we're seeing people who aren't people of faith legislating faith even coming after people of faith because they don't understand faith i think i saw someone i think it was a some news cast i don't know which network it was they had it

[richard_raines]: 34:20

ye

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 34:23

religion reporter try and explain christians and they could not wrap their minds around how christians think operate or even live in the world and it was it was funny because they're religio expert and so you're right when you have people who aren't people of faith trying to legislate faith even control faith i don't like the way that's being done so i agree with you on that one

[richard_raines]: 34:47

well the reason they don't understand it keith is because the paradem of the kingdom of god is upside down meaning that out here in the world where we live and work its it's you know dog dog it's do your best to get ahead it's it's it's a consumer mind set it's you know max out your income to be things that you don't need to impress people that don't care about you right that's just that's the mindset but the mindset of the kingdom of god is opposite the priority of the kingdom of god is you know you kowhatyou got to do if you want to live got to die if you want to lead you know what you got to doing the kingdom of god you got to serve the incarnate physical representation of god jesus of nazareth knelt down and washed the feet of the people he created that is the that is the paradem in the kingdom of god that you want to be first you got to be last you want to live you got to die and so if we have elected leaders who embrace the kingdom of god and the gospel of jesus christ then will see servant leaders and we'll see people of integrity which means that we need genuine christian revival we need for men and women of god to two identify we in my church we called our one more we say in my church that the most important number in the kingdom of god is one one more as when one more comes to jesus the angels celebrate right one more and so in our church we talk about who is your one more we always have our one more and and so i think that's what it's going to take

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 36:38

that's great i love this so

[richard_raines]: 36:41

my

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 36:41

what would you say is god's grace accomplishment through you

[richard_raines]: 36:46

god's greatest accomplishment through me yeah well

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 36:55

yeah

[richard_raines]: 36:55

i hope keith i hope that my children set the world on fire for jesus that's what when i die i want two things to happen i want the devil be glad that i'm dead and i want my children two to turn the world upside down for jesus so that remains to be seen but i would say other than that you know i teach college part time it's not a full time job for me it kind of is a full time job because i teach almost a full load it is an expression of my call and one of the colleges that i teach for these are students who are preparing for ministry so i teach theology to those students and a history of christianity and so i think that that my influence and my time spent with those students helping them to prepare for ministry where they're going to reach thousands i think is probably um that probably qualifies in my opinion but other than that manner still praying for our kids and that's my that's my dream which i think is god's dream that that my kids will turn the world upside down for jesus

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 38:24

great so what's your next project going to be

[richard_raines]: 38:28

it's a good question get my sixteen year old out of the house without without a fist fight that would be a start no i think i've got more books in me

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 38:39

no

[richard_raines]: 38:39

but

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 38:41

we

[richard_raines]: 38:41

i would

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 38:41

like

[richard_raines]: 38:41

like to write a book these a couple of books i want to write

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 38:44

i

[richard_raines]: 38:45

i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 38:45

want

[richard_raines]: 38:45

want

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 38:45

to write

[richard_raines]: 38:45

to write

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 38:45

a

[richard_raines]: 38:45

a book about the women in the history of christianity um you know men tend to get

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 38:52

all

[richard_raines]: 38:52

all the the ink and all the celebration

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 38:55

it

[richard_raines]: 38:55

but there are a lot of women through the history of christianity that that were instrumental to some of the greatest revivals that we've seen so i think i've got that book in me and i do want to write a book about the kingdom of god for christians about understanding the kingdom of this world versus the kingdom of god but right now you know balancing work and balancing teaching almost full time and trying to promote this book i need to make sure i

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 39:23

don't

[richard_raines]: 39:23

don't over commit to anything but i think

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 39:26

i

[richard_raines]: 39:26

like at least two more books in me and i'd like to tackle both of those subjects

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 39:31

so here's one that wasn't i didn't see you ahead of time if you had the opportunity besides jesus who is the one person you want to sit down and have dinner with doing any anywhere

[richard_raines]: 39:41

in history

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 39:42

anywhere in history

[richard_raines]: 39:45

oh keith that is so unfair to ask a historian the one person they would want to sit down with in history um m one yeah i would you know

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 40:05

at

[richard_raines]: 40:05

what i'd say i'd say the apostle peter i think a lot of us identify with peter you know

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 40:12

i

[richard_raines]: 40:13

i tend to speak first and think later peter did a lot of things wrong one of the greatest things about peter to me is if you look at the end of jesus's ministry peter denied jesus in front of a servant girl right but the end of his life he proclaimed that jesus was lord to caesar and was crucified upside down and i would like to talk to peter about his understanding of grace because he was so publicly awarded grace i think that's the one person i've got a long list but i would like to spend some time with the apostle peter

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 40:59

yeah i think he's interesting to because remember when jesus came back from the dad he made sure he

[richard_raines]: 41:05

ah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 41:05

talked to peter

[richard_raines]: 41:07

yeah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 41:08

he's like

[richard_raines]: 41:09

yeah

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 41:10

peter o do great things for me and you're forgiven at that that that grace that he understood

[richard_raines]: 41:16

m

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 41:17

where peter's mind was that after the resurrection to me is just phenomenal

[richard_raines]: 41:22

sure and peter

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 41:24

let

[richard_raines]: 41:24

left that beach keith he left that beach he preached the

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 41:29

for

[richard_raines]: 41:29

first sermon of the christian church were three thousand people except to jesus as their saviour like that going from that to that is that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 41:39

it

[richard_raines]: 41:40

is

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 41:40

is

[richard_raines]: 41:41

a miracle it's inspiring its god

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 41:45

i

[richard_raines]: 41:45

can you use me do half of that you know

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 41:50

right

[richard_raines]: 41:50

it means that we don't have to be perfect there's a whole lot of lessons there but yeah i agree

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 41:56

anything i haven't asked you that i should have asked you

[richard_raines]: 42:00

you didn't ask the number one most asked question keith

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 42:03

what was that

[richard_raines]: 42:05

how

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 42:05

a

[richard_raines]: 42:05

can how can i possibly say that george washington had any virtue at all if he was a slave owner

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 42:11

oh

[richard_raines]: 42:11

that's the number one question that i get and it's a

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 42:15

long

[richard_raines]: 42:15

long answer and i'm not going to bore you but here's what i'll say

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 42:18

a

[richard_raines]: 42:19

is that slavery

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 42:21

very

[richard_raines]: 42:21

is a complex issue um and i think if if

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 42:26

our

[richard_raines]: 42:26

our position is okay washington own slaves so we're going no tear statues down and we're going to dismiss every good thing he's ever done

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 42:35

m

[richard_raines]: 42:36

if that's what we're going to do then then i say okay let's do it but if we're going to do that then then if you're a mail listening to my voice and you view internet pornography

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 42:47

a

[richard_raines]: 42:48

then you are doing more to put money into the pockets of

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 42:51

i

[richard_raines]: 42:51

slave owners than that washington ever had i would say that if you bought anything from china there's anything in your house from china chinese

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:00

need

[richard_raines]: 43:00

government sanctions slavery and so either get

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:06

every

[richard_raines]: 43:06

everything out of your house that was made in china and burn it in the front yard you're not being genuine

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:12

i

[richard_raines]: 43:12

but

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:12

will

[richard_raines]: 43:12

i will

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:12

say

[richard_raines]: 43:12

say

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:12

this

[richard_raines]: 43:13

this that is the one area that i identified where washington failed himself certainly as slaves and failed us because even though even though he came to see slavery is wrong and he stopped buying and selling humans he did stop and he did pursue an action plan to abolish slavery in the united states it just wasn't successful i still don't give him credit for it keith because the bible says that to him that knows to do good but doesn't do it to him it's sin and so he came to view slavery as immoral but he didn't do anything about it

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:49

there's

[richard_raines]: 43:49

and there's

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:49

a lot

[richard_raines]: 43:49

a

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:49

of

[richard_raines]: 43:49

lot

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:49

reasons

[richard_raines]: 43:49

of reasons for that culturally economically things like that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:53

i

[richard_raines]: 43:53

but

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:53

will

[richard_raines]: 43:53

i will

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:53

say

[richard_raines]: 43:53

say that it's a stain on his character but one of the things that i point to that complicates the issue because we tend

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:59

look

[richard_raines]: 43:59

to look

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 43:59

at it

[richard_raines]: 43:59

at it by

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:00

la

[richard_raines]: 44:00

laterally it's either this or that right if it's wrong you should do this or that then i point to there was a poet a slave who

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:11

a

[richard_raines]: 44:11

lived in boston her name her name was phyllis wheatley and phyllis

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:17

like

[richard_raines]: 44:18

was a poet but she was a slave

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:19

oh

[richard_raines]: 44:21

and she wrote a poem about george washington thanking god for george washington and praying that god would um do spell his favor upon george washington now that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:34

i mean

[richard_raines]: 44:34

means that is a slave write in

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:38

letter

[richard_raines]: 44:38

a letter about god's favor upon a slave owner now what

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:41

that

[richard_raines]: 44:41

that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:41

means

[richard_raines]: 44:41

means is that means that slavery was a complicated

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:44

i

[richard_raines]: 44:44

issue and for us to treat it as such a

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:47

black

[richard_raines]: 44:47

black and white issue is probably the best way to look at history

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:52

i

[richard_raines]: 44:52

but

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:52

will

[richard_raines]: 44:52

i will

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:52

say

[richard_raines]: 44:52

say this he failed

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:53

old

[richard_raines]: 44:53

us he failed himself even though he made steps

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:57

the

[richard_raines]: 44:58

in

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:58

rock

[richard_raines]: 44:58

the right

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 44:58

direct

[richard_raines]: 44:58

direction i still think he failed us but i just don't think that anybody is one thing and so that doesn't mean he didn't do other good things that just means that that you there's two camps keith there's two camps one camp says well george washington had slaves but look at all these other good things he did so let's ignore slavery

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 45:20

right

[richard_raines]: 45:21

the other and the other

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 45:22

a

[richard_raines]: 45:22

camp is well

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 45:23

you

[richard_raines]: 45:23

he owned slaves so that means anything he ever did or said has to be erased from history i think that's wrong as well and so who knows keith in five hundred years people

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 45:36

may

[richard_raines]: 45:36

may see some things that you and i did as morally reprehensible and do we want our legacy completely erased because maybe the issue was more nuance in our time than it was than it will be five and years from now so anyway so i can delve into that more or less but generally speaking that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 45:57

i

[richard_raines]: 45:57

is my take on that meaning that he failed

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 45:58

a

[richard_raines]: 45:59

us he failed his

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 46:00

a

[richard_raines]: 46:00

slaves he failed his family he failed himself he certainly

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 46:03

all

[richard_raines]: 46:03

failed his christianity because washington was a christian he wasn't a deist but even in that failure

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 46:10

oh

[richard_raines]: 46:11

i think he still did enough good that we can learn lessons from both the good and the bad that's that's my take on

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 46:17

that's and that's a good balance i usually i had wrote actually wrote a block about statues when all the statues were coming down and i said

[richard_raines]: 46:25

hm

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 46:25

if we took down a statue somebody who had a sinful moment in history or more months in history there won't be one statue of anybody up in as jesus christ so we all have

[richard_raines]: 46:36

trying

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 46:36

you know we all have

[richard_raines]: 46:37

oh

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 46:37

lives that are that are full of mistakes bad decision that we should not be the whole of our lives based on those those mistakes we've made in our past so

[richard_raines]: 46:49

i agree

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 46:50

so where can listeners find your book again and where can they find you a social media besides tik tok

[richard_raines]: 46:56

so

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 46:57

oh

[richard_raines]: 46:58

not on pick so the book again the title

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 47:02

who

[richard_raines]: 47:02

of the book is finding washington why america needs to rediscover the virtues of her most essential founding father

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 47:09

the

[richard_raines]: 47:09

kind of a long sub title but finding washington you can find it anywhere books are sold online barns and noble amazon your local book store can

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 47:19

get

[richard_raines]: 47:19

get

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 47:19

it

[richard_raines]: 47:19

it and on socials on both facebook you can

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 47:25

oh

[richard_raines]: 47:26

find

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 47:26

the

[richard_raines]: 47:26

me personally i have a finding washington page but you can find me personally on facebook instagram and twitter is chard underscore rains are a i n s that's my my handle on socials and send me a friend request or send me an email at richard at finding washington dot com but i'd love for your listeners to get the book to read it sam in email and if they think it's a good book either buy it or give it to someone else and let's see if we can start a conversation

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 47:55

yeah

[richard_raines]: 47:55

and start a revival of virtue

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 47:58

well richard thank you so much this was a great conversation and i pray your book gets attention and we discover more about our our founding father one of our greatest founding fathers

[richard_raines]: 48:09

i appreciate

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 48:09

thank

[richard_raines]: 48:09

that

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 48:10

you

[richard_raines]: 48:10

thank

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 48:10

so

[richard_raines]: 48:10

you so much for having mc

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 48:11

no

[richard_raines]: 48:11

keith i really enjoyed this

[keith_haney__the_man__the_myth__the_legend]: 48:12

leasure